sACN and ArtNet

Hello!

I'm runing a Win7 CongoJR with Cobalt on.

I am now using sACN over ethernet to my gateway. But I also have some ArtNet only devices and I wonder if it's bad to run dubble protocols out from the JR on the same ethernet port. I would like to keep the sACN line for DMX in and so.

I guess It will be up to 5-8 universes in total.

Thanks.

  • 21 views and no one can tell me if it's ok to run sACN and ArtNet at the same time?
  • In reply to jolsson:

    Hi Johannes,

    unfortunately this is not just a yes or no answer.

    Its like asking if you could drink Coca-Cola and Pepsi at the same time.

    Yes, if you had two straws, and drank small amounts from both glasses, this would work at the same time.

    But if two People held two five gallon buckets of the Coca-Cola and Pepsi drinks above your head and started pouring,

    the experience would not be as effective.


    Yes, you can send sACN and Artnet out of one of the network adapters at the same time, but because Artnet 1 & 2 can use lots of the network bandwidth under certain cirumstances, its best to try and limit the number of Artnet Universes to only 1 or 2 universes, specially depending on the number of devices and types of traffic on the network.  

    As sACN is very light weight, having ca. 8x sACN Universes alongside1x Universe Artnet out of the Cobalt should work ok.

  • In reply to corey:

    Thanks.
    Abut the buckets... the pipe takes 32K+ universes over ArtNet or almost 64K over sACN. so 3 ArtNet and 5 sACN feels like it should work together. it should not clog the pipe.
  • In reply to jolsson:

    This is not a black/white or yes/no topic.

    Artnet has 4 different Versions of its protocol (whereas Version 4 now uses sACN to Transport dmx

    data over the Network).

    Artnet Version 1 which is what most consoles - including ETC Cobalt/Eos Family - use and it does not support 32K Universes.

    That would only be Artnet 3 (and now also Artnet 4).

    I think using 3x Artnet Universes and 5x sACN Universes out of an ETC Cobalt Family Console could lead to problems.

    To make a good analysis without trying it on site, one would need to know the entire System Network including all devices (names, Network address info),

    the Switches and their configs, the cabling types, etc. Easier would be to try it out in the Network and try to stress it out and see how it responds.


    Networks can be such a complicated thing.

    I recommend contacting your local dealer or ETC Office and get them involved in determining how many Artnet Universes your system could handle.

  • In reply to jolsson:

    The Art-Net and sACN universe counts in their specification/standards are the absolute maximums.

    They are the theoretical limit if you had infinite bandwidth and infinite processing capability.

    In real life, you have neither of those.

    Art-Net (Art-DMX) tops out at around 4-8 universes.
    This is primarily because the receiving devices can't cope and the switches think it looks like an attack on the network infrastructure.
    Some networks and receiving devices can handle more, some cannot.
    Art-Net 2/3 can increase the universe count if you have a small number of receiving devices that each want multiple universes, but they don't work at all if you have "many" receivers.

    sACN tops out at around 150 universes on 100Mb/s network links, with any number of receiving devices.
    To go higher you need managed switches and at least some gigabit or better backbones.

    General rules of thumb:

    - Maximum of 4 universes of Art-Net Art-DMX, unless you really have to.
    - All universes of sACN.

    (As Corey said, Art-Net 4 lets you use sACN instead, so do that if you can.)

  • In reply to Richard:

    So another question on the subject... Art-Net 2 came out 10 years ago... why is ETC so far behind?
  • In reply to jolsson:

    The vast majority of "Art-Net" receiving devices only support Art-Net 1.

    Compatibility always wins, unfortunately.
  • In reply to Richard:

    But why not include an option for Art-Net 4 only, and add missing features like device polling?
  • In reply to Rusettsten:

    Because adding options requires many resources to develop, implement and test. What one thinks to maybe just be some little addition could be a massive amount of work internally which would cost a lot and possibly raise the price of the product which might not be justified based on the number of people that would actually use it - especially for a protocol that’s not standardized and could be changed again in a possible Artnet v5. There are already great protocols like RDM and sACN which can be used for this and are standardized.
  • In reply to corey:

    corey
    Because adding options requires many resources to develop, implement and test. What one thinks to maybe just be some little addition could be a massive amount of work internally which would cost a lot and possibly raise the price of the product which might not be justified based on the number of people that would actually use it - especially for a protocol that’s not standardized and could be changed again in a possible Artnet v5. There are already great protocols like RDM and sACN which can be used for this and are standardized.
     

    Talking about "Higher prize" on a discontinued product? "ETC don't want to put the money in to it" fine, but talking about a free software will cost more? What I know you can't get a new Cobalt desk any more... You make it sound like we save money on it. but there is nothing to buy. ;-)

  • In reply to jolsson:

    Hi Johannes,

    adding Artnet v4 Support might entail adding it to more ETC products than just Cobalt.
  • In reply to corey:

    But if money is the issue why did ETC spend $10,000+ on the TSP around the time of E1.31 's development?



    Spelling
    [edited by: Rusettsten at 1:47 AM (GMT -5) on Mon, Apr 16 2018]
  • In reply to Rusettsten:

    Hi Rusetten,

    I never said it’s just about money. There are many factors involved in the process of deciding to and then implementing a new feature. ETC is always researching new and not so new ideas and features to try and make better products for our customers. It is also possible based on your input here - especially if more customers request the same feature - that the implementation of this protocol could be considered again. This is why we appreciate posts like yours because it helps us better understand what our customers need. Thanks!
  • In reply to Richard:

    So you say 4-8 Art-Net Universes. How do the other manufactures do it that don't run sACN as primary? Avolite as an example say 16 Art-Net universes direct from desk.
    I'm just interested how it all works. and ETC's Art-Net spec is so much lower then other manufactures. I want to figure out why! ;-)
  • In reply to jolsson:

    Hi Johannes,

    I have not used that console before or helped develop it, so its not possible to say how they work inside. Have you outputted yourself 16x Universes of Artnet v1 from that console to verify what you read really works?

    You could try it out and see what you discover.

    Important to know is which Artnet version is being sent, and if it’s being sent via broadcast or unicode. Some manufacturers don‘t display these settings which makes knowing this information difficult.
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