ML Patching 101

Oh dear. I'm sure I have asked before but (!)

Just getting around to practically patching an ADJ Encore Ellipse 1000 and chose the 11 channel (Parameter whatever) mode. Put simple dimmers on 1 thru 10 and then pointed my "ADJ Encore Ellipse 1000" to start at 11. Excellent. In the old days I would have used faders 11 thru 22 to control the Encore's individual channels (like red, green . . . ). Now, leaving the patch screen I bring up "Live Summary" and at this point run slap bang into a concept wall!

Chans 1 thru 10 are across the top look good. Underneath is CH 11 (Grayed out) and to its right are 12 cells of info (why 12 not 11. Let's leave this for now)

The Problem; Underneath the CH 11 row is a regular table. But it starts with CH 12 at the top left !!! Oyeeee! That CH 12 can't really be pointing to DMX address 12 can it? Wouldn't that override the 2nd parameter in my Encore patch? Clearly the lamp WANTS data from CHANS 11 thru 22 but why is my table showing CHAN 12 available (presumably for other use)?

And if it doesn't GOTO DMX 12 - where the heck does it go? I know I am missing something here. Please make me happy again.

  • Ok where you are getting misled is you are still thinking about channels as if they are DMX addresses.

    Channels are the physical objects ie the fixture you hung.

    So Channel 11 is the ADJ Encore Ellipse 1000 with all its complexities spread over whatever number of DMX addresses, no one cares about that anymore (other than when actually patching)

    In the screen shot you can now just select the attributes of the fixture by clicking in them or by typing on the command line.

    Try typing

    11 @ Full Enter it should turn on.

    Click one of the columns eg Red and type a value, it should change the red attribute.

    More usefully select the ML tab and then you can see all the things you can mess with on the fixture just pick a colour or click one of the other things (dont know what the fixture is capable of but you probably get at least strobe etc)

    You have moved from the old world of having to know what dmx did what for each of your fixture types to the world of the desk software knows all about that and you just tell it the same thing regardless of how the fixture works.

    (For info The Channel 12 fixture is the next thing you patched and probably has a DMX address of 22 if you let it assign the next free DMX address)
  • In reply to Mike A:

    Excellent Mike. And it makes sense, though for us new to ML's not necessarily intuitive.
    For example; Your last line (For info The Channel 12 . . . . . probably 22) fits in exactly how I was thinking but how then do I interpret where CHAN 12 is in DMX so I can then set the correct address on my 'next' - say - simple dimmer?
    I know, I know I must 'give up' DMX channels but it would make life easier in the transition if somewhere I could see the actual DMX of number 12 here.
  • In reply to Robert452:

    The normal place you'd look at what you've got patched where is in the patch screen

    So for example on the screen shot at the bottom, I've got a bunch of RGB cans patched.  The addresses are a little more complex that you might be used to as the 10/ is because they are all in universe 10 but the bit after the / is what they have their address set to.

    You can also see a single fixture by selecting it and then opening the About tab. On the right of that tab there are a choice of views and probably the one labelled patch will make you feel at home !!!

     

  • In reply to Mike A:

    OK - This is exactly what I was looking for. Your Patch table shows for example a LED Par Can (as 'fixture' 44) taking up DMX addresses 10/261-264. Makes absolute sense and I'm OK with the universe bit. It all now comes down to the fact that my Patch screen does not show any 'address' let alone something like the expected 11-21. But, as I write there is a horrible feeling permeating the old gray matter that perhaps I should not have started my new show with the 1 to 1 patch. Hmm! I'm going to start a new show - not with 1 to 1 to test this. Thanks for hanging in there. We will get to the bottom of this and my future with ML's be much brighter (!)
  • In reply to Robert452:

    To my own reply? Honestly! Based on Mike's original there I started a new show NOT Patched 1 t01 - Patched 1 thru 10 as dimmers and then 11 as the Encore (11CH) AT 11 and voila! I think the guys who really paint the stage just don't think of starting a show patched 1to1 any more. Any way. Brain is happy. I am happy. Thanks Mike
  • In reply to Robert452:

    The best way to do it is to first patch all your dimmers 1:1 and then patch your multi-parameter channels using the channel numbers that are easiest to remember.
  • Robert452
    Underneath is CH 11 (Grayed out) and to its right are 12 cells of info (why 12 not 11. Let's leave this for now)

    If a light doesn't have a DMX slot for intensity, Eos adds a virtual intensity parameter.

    In the picture above, if you want the light to be at 50% intensity, you could do "red 50 green 50 blue 50 white 50 enter" OR just type [At] 50 [enter] and that would use the channel's virtual intensity to dim all the colors in the light. The red, green, blue, and white values in the table stay the same but they are multiplied by 50% to produce the actual DMX output.

  • In reply to John728:

    Now that is very interesting! What was hanging me up was that I was in a show patched 1 to 1 and then went to spot 11 and patched in a 11 channel device. However looking a the patch panel I did not see what Mike's picture showed. Everything was 1 to 1 except channel 11 which had nothing in the address column! So I had this epiphany and went back, started new show without 1 to 1. I hung 10 simple dimmers. The added the Encore 11 channel device and up came the patch panel with the 11-21 address as expected. Over on the "Live Table" I saw the 11 simple - single channels, the muticell 1 with Intense, Red, Green etc. It all looked very good.

    So, as to patching ML's in a new 1 to 1 show - obviously needs revisiting by me. Still - things are much better now so thank you for the input
  • In reply to John728:

    Oh, OK. I've pasted this in my "toDo" list. There are quite a lot of ML techniques I need to get too. I call anything that takes up more than one DMX512 channel a "ML" - though some people call them MH (Moving Head) even if they're not!
  • In reply to Robert452:

    It's called a Moving Light control because Moving Lights pre-date modern LED colour mixing.
    So even though the feature is mostly used for colour mixing now, the name has stuck.

    Also... You're still speaking about a single light source with multiple parameters. That's not what "Multi-Cell" means.
  • In reply to Wuz314159:

    Oh right - was referring to multi cell line in the display. My Bad! I think I was told a Multicell fixture is one that has more then one DMX address by virtue of a optional add on. e.g. a single channel ellipsoid might have an optional motorized GoBo - thus the 'put together' package has two DMX addresses and is referred to as multicell? Right?

    Back to the patching a ML. An odd thing has happened. On my first try I patched a single 11 channel device at 11 and saw the Chan numbers and their Address to the right. The ML at 11 gave an address of '11-21' which was good. But, when trying again the ML address showed up empty. All the rest are as expected. I want to get back to Mike's original display and see the 11-21 in the address column.
  • In reply to Robert452:

    For info multicell is where you have several individually controllable RGB Leds in a fixture, sometimes you want to command the whole fixture to an intensity or colour but sometimes you want to command a single LED in the fixture. (Explicit multicell support only came in in 2.7 before that you had to patch them as separate fixtures which was a bit untidy especially if there was a common pan/tilt as they were cells in a single moving head)

    Your "single channel ellipsoid might have an optional motorized GoBo - thus the 'put together' package" is a multi part, where as you say two separate DMX ranges are pulled together into a single composite fixture.

    Not sure what you are doing with the patching but if you just in patch screen type 11 @ nn where nn is the address you want it will patch it or tell you you've overlapped addresses. The only other thing I can think you might have done is toggled the display into address rather than fxture display by pressing the format button.
  • In reply to Mike A:

    Thank you for going over the multicell v multi part. Yep, the patching thing is more difficult to describe then it appears . However, your advice to try [Format] did bring things back and I just found the [Attributes] button! I really need to practice, practice, practice. Still waiting the new board and director wants it running for Mary Poppins in 4 weeks! (may end up an unhappy director - the Element has a heavy back order out of ETC)
  • In reply to Robert452:

    Not sure what context you found the attributes button in but it’s extremely unlikely you will need it.

    Just patch the fixtures in the simplest possible way ie channel number type xxxx @ next

    Set the physical fixture to the address the desk selected and you are done

    Then in live pick your channels set them as you want using the ML control for the complex ones and just typing @ and the level for the others

    Then just record cue next to save it

    Change what needs to change for the next cue and do the same.

    And you’ll be under way

    Use Goto and a cue number to jump out of sequence and Go to move to next cue when playing it back.

    If a cue is wrong adjust the look and hit update

    That’s probably all you need to know to get started and probably get a lot better result than you’d get from and old style desk.
  • In reply to Mike A:

    Yeh, somehow I was just cruising around trying to see actual DMX addresses when I hit the Attribute button and a little panel appeared where the CIA normally is. And, it had a lot of info on a ML I'd highlighted. I think your "Format" button is doing the trick. The problems is I don't have the board yet and of course - no one to guide me, though this forum is terrific. The manual covers all the Eos family so a bit verbose in places. It has everything in linear order which means that info down one end - like [Format] aren't too well remembered by the time one gets to patching. I'm OK on the Expression II - it was just the ideas the Eos uses to map the ML patches. But - practice makes perfect and when the board does get here I will be able to handle 90%. We're not using any ML's on the next show in the main theatre. Actually - I use a lot of ML over in our smaller theatre but also use a very different board hence a different philosophy.
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