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Creating and editing color palettes

I am a little embarrassed to have to ask this, but I need help developing a reasonable strategy for dealing with color palettes on the Hog 4 platform.

My goal is to get to a point where I always start with a custom generic show file so I am not constantly recreating color and beam plaettes, views, custom effects, etc. As a point of reference, in the Hog2 days it was simple enough to select a single fixture of each fixture type to create palettes that would be recognized by any number of those same fixtures. I realize that the GLOBAL, PER TYPE and PER FIXTURE options are far more powerful but somewhere along the line I get fouled up. This problem is exacerbated when I have to start editing those palettes which I have to do all the time.

My plan would be to start with one instance of as many different fixtures as possible to create my standard color palettes. I would assume all of these palettes would be recorded PER TYPE. Whenever I start a new event, I would then merge whatever new fixtures might be necessary to my standard show file before moving on to actual prgramming thereby increasing the number of fixtures in that generic file. I am again assuming I would merge these palettes using PER TYPE.

By the way, I am aware that the HOG OS more or less requires one to stay in a single color model per fixture type. I like the idea of the HS model as it certainly makes the effects engine and detailed programming far more powerful. I am not convinced, however, that HS is truly the best model choice. I am also not entirely sure if using white and/or amber LED's with the HS model constitutes mixing color models.

Since moving into Hog 3 and now Hog 4, I have constantly run into issues with colors that will not update or that just play back incorrectly. I am fairly certain that some problems may occur due to my potentially forgetting to choose PER TYPE when recording. There have been times that the only way I can "repair" a specific color might be to use the "PER FIXTURE" option.

As I mentioned in another thread, I would like to have more than one standard color palette so that I can switch back and forth between them based on current usage. I want to make certain, before I invest any time in the process of creating a standard show file, that I am doing things in a way that will work. To some extent I have the same problem with beam parameters. It does not seem like this should be that difficult but it has been driving me nuts. Any thoughts?
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    Thanks for the information. I believe I am tracking with you on this. Oh, and happy New Year by the way. Let me ask this:

    When editing a color palette (which is where everything goes right down the tubes for me) can I select a type of fixture whether a single fixture or all of a particular type, modify a color (using the appropriate color model of course) and then press "RECORD" "PER TYPE" press the appropriate color palette in the directory "MERGE"? I have a tendency to do this to make quick updates to colors when I see something I don't like. Is there a better approach?

    To clarify, almost every project I do is programmed in advance in pre-visualization. Once onsite I am then going over the entire set of cues (which could be in the thousands) with very limited time. So I often just start running through things I know I have to touch up quickly such as focuses, beam edges, strobe rates etc. and often times I am just doing that on the fly as I run cues and addressing the issues that come up. That is why I find myself editing random colors on the fly as opposed to simply going through the entire palette range with all fixtures.

    On other notes, when you say that you have additional palettes for White and Amber, do you mean those values then can be "piled" on to your HS palettes? For example, if I have a WHITE palette in HS (0% saturation and any hue) for an RGBAW fixture, do you then have a second palette that has a white value of 100% an amber value of maybe somewhere between 50%-80% or so that you can add to the HS palette in your programming? Does that then cause the same problem as mixing color models in your programming?

    To me that is one serious issues with the Hog OS that I had hoped would have been resolved in the 4 series and that is color modeling. I have never understood why you can't move seamlessly between models. It has always seemed to me that if I entered a hue value of 0 and a saturation value of 100% and then decide to switch to CMY that the values should simply be C-0, M-100, Y-100 and vice versa. This is, of course not the case and is where a lot of color issues come into play with the desk. I, like you prefer the idea of HS mixing as effects are FAR more powerful and intuitive with a 2 parameter model then a three parameter model. Depending on the type of rig, there can be a lot of other potential benefits as well. I have found that, regardless of what the manual says, I get a lot of unwanted transitions in HS. When cross fading between saturated colors you are, in effect, simply changing the hue value so for example a blue to yellow cross fade will take you through a saturated green as opposed to cross fading between C/M and Y.

    Any suggestions, tips etc. are appreciated. Perhaps my entire approach is incorrect.
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  • 0
    Thanks for the information. I believe I am tracking with you on this. Oh, and happy New Year by the way. Let me ask this:

    When editing a color palette (which is where everything goes right down the tubes for me) can I select a type of fixture whether a single fixture or all of a particular type, modify a color (using the appropriate color model of course) and then press "RECORD" "PER TYPE" press the appropriate color palette in the directory "MERGE"? I have a tendency to do this to make quick updates to colors when I see something I don't like. Is there a better approach?

    To clarify, almost every project I do is programmed in advance in pre-visualization. Once onsite I am then going over the entire set of cues (which could be in the thousands) with very limited time. So I often just start running through things I know I have to touch up quickly such as focuses, beam edges, strobe rates etc. and often times I am just doing that on the fly as I run cues and addressing the issues that come up. That is why I find myself editing random colors on the fly as opposed to simply going through the entire palette range with all fixtures.

    On other notes, when you say that you have additional palettes for White and Amber, do you mean those values then can be "piled" on to your HS palettes? For example, if I have a WHITE palette in HS (0% saturation and any hue) for an RGBAW fixture, do you then have a second palette that has a white value of 100% an amber value of maybe somewhere between 50%-80% or so that you can add to the HS palette in your programming? Does that then cause the same problem as mixing color models in your programming?

    To me that is one serious issues with the Hog OS that I had hoped would have been resolved in the 4 series and that is color modeling. I have never understood why you can't move seamlessly between models. It has always seemed to me that if I entered a hue value of 0 and a saturation value of 100% and then decide to switch to CMY that the values should simply be C-0, M-100, Y-100 and vice versa. This is, of course not the case and is where a lot of color issues come into play with the desk. I, like you prefer the idea of HS mixing as effects are FAR more powerful and intuitive with a 2 parameter model then a three parameter model. Depending on the type of rig, there can be a lot of other potential benefits as well. I have found that, regardless of what the manual says, I get a lot of unwanted transitions in HS. When cross fading between saturated colors you are, in effect, simply changing the hue value so for example a blue to yellow cross fade will take you through a saturated green as opposed to cross fading between C/M and Y.

    Any suggestions, tips etc. are appreciated. Perhaps my entire approach is incorrect.
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