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Creating and editing color palettes

I am a little embarrassed to have to ask this, but I need help developing a reasonable strategy for dealing with color palettes on the Hog 4 platform.

My goal is to get to a point where I always start with a custom generic show file so I am not constantly recreating color and beam plaettes, views, custom effects, etc. As a point of reference, in the Hog2 days it was simple enough to select a single fixture of each fixture type to create palettes that would be recognized by any number of those same fixtures. I realize that the GLOBAL, PER TYPE and PER FIXTURE options are far more powerful but somewhere along the line I get fouled up. This problem is exacerbated when I have to start editing those palettes which I have to do all the time.

My plan would be to start with one instance of as many different fixtures as possible to create my standard color palettes. I would assume all of these palettes would be recorded PER TYPE. Whenever I start a new event, I would then merge whatever new fixtures might be necessary to my standard show file before moving on to actual prgramming thereby increasing the number of fixtures in that generic file. I am again assuming I would merge these palettes using PER TYPE.

By the way, I am aware that the HOG OS more or less requires one to stay in a single color model per fixture type. I like the idea of the HS model as it certainly makes the effects engine and detailed programming far more powerful. I am not convinced, however, that HS is truly the best model choice. I am also not entirely sure if using white and/or amber LED's with the HS model constitutes mixing color models.

Since moving into Hog 3 and now Hog 4, I have constantly run into issues with colors that will not update or that just play back incorrectly. I am fairly certain that some problems may occur due to my potentially forgetting to choose PER TYPE when recording. There have been times that the only way I can "repair" a specific color might be to use the "PER FIXTURE" option.

As I mentioned in another thread, I would like to have more than one standard color palette so that I can switch back and forth between them based on current usage. I want to make certain, before I invest any time in the process of creating a standard show file, that I am doing things in a way that will work. To some extent I have the same problem with beam parameters. It does not seem like this should be that difficult but it has been driving me nuts. Any thoughts?
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    Just a note on the rotating gobo thing:

    To my mind if the fixture has its rotating gobo on gobo 2 as an example, thats fine. The cue has a break up with slowly rotates. I update a gobo, say slot 2 on gobo wheel 2, then update the slow rotation palette. In this case I would expect the cue to replay both palettes, the rotation appears not to follow programming even if the original information was derived from a fixture where gobo 1 has the index/rotating gobos, I just think it should.

    Regarding less than good fixture files, I have sent a few in for checking, had one with 4 pan channels and no tilt channels, easy fix when you opened the file up, inverted zoom channels of a few Robe fixtures, also the Robe DLX had 0>255 when it should be 255>0 on colour. You might remember I had some mini-scans that really caused some *** with the split fade and strobe channel, in the end that was a badly written file and once I made an edit I got the best way to deal with split functions.

    Is there an official way to send in fixture problem requests. I would like a way to send comments and see that they have been received, confirmed as a problem and re written, anything I have sent in I have not had a reply to.
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    Andy, what about if you create (or let me create it for you) an ANDY-Light... a Spot that has 2 rotating Gobo Wheels, CMY, 2 Color Wheels and the other needed features.
    With that fixture (maybe based on a VL3000 plus adding these other features) you build your base show...
    I know that slot colors are sometimes are not correct, might be due to revisions in hardware, software or DMX charts. There is no real easy solution, but this is not a real development bug, it is more a thing of communication between manufacturers and lib-creation or even making/providing correct DMX-Charts.

    I´m still thinking of an easy or good way to alter palettes with or without the option to have influence on existing programming.
    Maybe a record-option that when you merge into an existing palette that this will allow existing cues to be referenced to all values. This would help in all your color problems or if you have recorded a NC without any CTO infos in it and would like your NC now be a bit warmer because of TV recording or so, then you only would need to add CTO to your NC palette and all cues will have it into.
    Ok, a work around for this situation would be to edit the CTO default, but still I understand your request.
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    [QUOTE=inthe128;72314]Just a note on the rotating gobo thing:

    To my mind if the fixture has its rotating gobo on gobo 2 as an example, thats fine. The cue has a break up with slowly rotates. I update a gobo, say slot 2 on gobo wheel 2, then update the slow rotation palette. In this case I would expect the cue to replay both palettes, the rotation appears not to follow programming even if the original information was derived from a fixture where gobo 1 has the index/rotating gobos, I just think it should.

    Regarding less than good fixture files, I have sent a few in for checking, had one with 4 pan channels and no tilt channels, easy fix when you opened the file up, inverted zoom channels of a few Robe fixtures, also the Robe DLX had 0>255 when it should be 255>0 on colour. You might remember I had some mini-scans that really caused some *** with the split fade and strobe channel, in the end that was a badly written file and once I made an edit I got the best way to deal with split functions.

    Is there an official way to send in fixture problem requests. I would like a way to send comments and see that they have been received, confirmed as a problem and re written, anything I have sent in I have not had a reply to.

    You know all direct contacts you need ;-)
    You can also send me a list and I can pass it on
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    [QUOTE=MLorenz;72315]Andy, what about if you create (or let me create it for you) an ANDY-Light... a Spot that has 2 rotating Gobo Wheels, CMY, 2 Color Wheels and the other needed features.
    With that fixture (maybe based on a VL3000 plus adding these other features) you build your base show...
    I know that slot colors are sometimes are not correct, might be due to revisions in hardware, software or DMX charts. There is no real easy solution, but this is not a real development bug, it is more a thing of communication between manufacturers and lib-creation or even making/providing correct DMX-Charts.

    I´m still thinking of an easy or good way to alter palettes with or without the option to have influence on existing programming.
    Maybe a record-option that when you merge into an existing palette that this will allow existing cues to be referenced to all values. This would help in all your color problems or if you have recorded a NC without any CTO infos in it and would like your NC now be a bit warmer because of TV recording or so, then you only would need to add CTO to your NC palette and all cues will have it into.
    Ok, a work around for this situation would be to edit the CTO default, but still I understand your request.

    Marc: Incorrect fixtures I know are not always going to be an HES thing, is the official fixture files not created by and outside company and HES has a way to created requested fixtures themselves? I have to use a selection of lamps that once downloading the DMX chart does not give a correct result.

    I send in to email addresses, but would love an online form which would give some idea to status of the request and also allow anyone with the same problem to see if that fixture is in the system for update.
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    It sounds like perhaps I have been over-thinking what should be a relatively simple process. I will have a RHFB3 in the office later this afternoon and before I start on new programming I'll spend an hour or so experimenting. My output will be the Pre-Viz so I can put in as many types of fixtures as I want which will help.

    Thanks for the insight!
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    Scott,
    if you would like to try with a FB3, keep in mind that there are no userkinds. So if you would like to create the HSAW stuff there you must set keep parameters seperated in the preferences.

    Andy, jhmemmm, the germans would say: JEIN ;-)
    The problem is that the number of nes fixtures is increasing so fast that it is hard to keep track and also sometimes it takes really long to have a good lib-file, for example we are working on a good lib for the JB Sparx since 8 weeks... Daily-business gets into the way, urgent requests, dmx-layout changes and so on

    I agree that such a database would be great to have....
    But this would need an extra person just taking care of that database, and manpower is like always a problem. I think if possible they would love to do stuff like that...
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    Copy that and thanks for the up. I just want to get the general work flow sorted out. I really appreciate your help.
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    My programming time became far more limited than I had anticipated so I just plowed through it as quickly as possible. I only had media servers and a bunch of Mac 101's so I simply selected all fixtures, dialed in the color using the HS model and pressed record and the appropriate directory button. Easy. What I found interesting was going back to view the directory, once completed, in spreadsheet format. I found a few of the colors were recorded as GLOBAL while most were not. So odd.
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    What did you see when you open the palettes that where not shown as global?
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    I knew someone would ask that and I honestly do not recall. I won't be in front of a desk again until Thursday. I'll post back when I can view it again. Nothing but meetings until then.

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