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    Jeff Toussieng
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ION subs

Trying to record three subs using a Chauvet TriTour led fixture; sub 1 led red, sub 2 led green, sub 3 led blue.  Reason: teaching a middle school class very basic lighting including very basic rgb blending.  Have a middle school student sitting at the console so don't want them controlling led's using the ML controls virtual wheels or selecting the fixture and using the encoders (to much for them to grasp).  I want them to be able to bring up sub 1 to show the whole class red in the fixture, then bring down sub 1 and up sub 2 to show them green, then bring down sub 2 and up sub 3 to show blue and off again.

Next I want them to bring up sub 1 and slowly add sub 2 to show how the colors change while adding green to red.  I take them through a couple of other combinations and end with all 3 faders up showing white; ugly agreed, but at least to show them basic rgb = white.

I've tried all the settings for subs I can think of but no matter what setting they don't respond in that fashion.  They seem to all have individual control.  I know i'm missing something.

I don't want to switch the console to channel mode because I have other demonstrations on subs for other things.

Any suggestions?

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  • 0

    You're running into the fact that eos family desks (and actually most multi-parameter fixture native desks that I've run across) record the color mixing parameters all together when they record any of them. 

    The easiest way to tell the console not to do that is via a selective store when recording the sub.  That means you could select the channel and then the individual parameter you want to include (from the tiles in the CIA or in ML controls depending on the desk) and then record the submaster. e.g. (assuming you're already in live and dealing with channel 5's current state)
    Live: [5] {Red} [Record] [Sub] [1] [Enter] 

    Since you've already created the subs you can also go into blind edit for that sub and remove the attributes you don't want.  e.g. (assuming you've already gone into blind and chosen sub 1 to edit)
    Blind Sub 1: [5] {Blue} [+] {Green} [@] [Enter] 



    [edited by: Tracy.Fitch at 10:27 AM (GMT -6) on Sat, Mar 10 2012]
  • 0 in reply to Tracy.Fitch

    To add to Tracy's post, you also have to be aware of the intensity channel.  While you can control the three different colors via three handles, bringing up the red handle won't actually output any light unless the intensity parameter it up as well.  For your purposes it might mean adding a forth sub for intensity, or simply parking the intensity channel up for the duration of the demonstration.

     

    -Tim

  • 0 in reply to Xander

    Coupla things:

    I recorded both an individual sub with intensity only then three subs with red, green, blue on each.  Still brings up red, green and blue individually but does not ADD green to red, or ADD blue to green, etc.

    I recorded red, green and blue on individual subs including also intensity on each sub so I didn't have to have an individual intensity sub and got the same problem.

    As I watch the spreadsheet, bring up red and red goes to 100.  Start adding green and red goes down proportionally as green is being brought up.  A cross fade of colors.

    I tried as many combinations of ltp, imaster, background, etc. choices as I could come up with in the sub list and could not  get the subs to add/mix rgb using any setting.

    Something is still missing.  Ehhhhh

  • 0 in reply to Jeff Toussieng
    Sorrry didn't mean to suggest that as the answer. It sounds like you are recording all the color information into each sub. You need to make sure that you only have the Red or Green or Blue parameter recorded. you can either selective record them or go into the sub in blind and select the other values and @enter them. By recording all the color attributes in each sub they step on each other. Hope this helps
  • 0 in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    It sounds a lot like you still have zero values stored for the other colours of the fixture in the subs - as Tracy suggested, if you go into blind, select the red sub, select the channels of the pertinent fixtures, select green and blue (and amber, if necessary), press [at][enter] and repeat similarly for the other subs/colours for those fixtures, you'll probably get the desired behaviour.

  • 0 in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Hey Jeff,

    What you are likely seeing when you bring each sub up and all the colors turn on is the parameters in their home value. What I tend to do when I am running LED's is set their parameter values, in this case RGB to "0" in a cue. You could also change their home value in the home preset. Try doing that and let us know how that works. 

  • 0 in reply to jselander

    Josh,

    tried everything up to your comment and still not working.  At one point the best I could come up with is when the fader is started up the next color suddenly flashes to the added color and not a smooth blending.

    Not exactly sure what you are referring to using "a" cue.  I think this should be much simpler than it's become and looks like it's just better to activate the fixures and have the operating student dial the encoders to add colors, as they work exactly as I wanted the faders to work.  I don't like having them (middle school age) doing that but i've spent a lot of time on this and so have others and it's not worth it.

  • 0 in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Jeff,

    I attached a file with this post that has a single led fixture in it, I wasnt sure which Colorado you were talking about so I just used a LED RGB fixture. To make this work I did the following:

    In Live. select the fixture and put the color parameter values at 0 and the intensity at Full. So what you should see is RGB all at 0 and Intensity should read full. Record this into Q1. Next go into Blind and create Sub 1. Select the channel and press the Red parameter tile then full. This puts only Red at 100. Do the same for Green and Blue.

    If your cue is still playing back, you should be able to add RGB in with no issues. Please take a look at the showfile and let me know if this still doesn't make any sense. If you press go in the file, the Intensity should turn on and the Color params should all go to 0 thus allowing the faders to take control.

    LED Sub 2012-03-12 17-14-04.esf
  • 0 in reply to jselander

    I haven't tried it in awhile but...

    I believe recording intensity @Full on each sub will also work. It's not ideal, but removes the cue from the issue, which can be trouble on an Element.

    You can get some interesting results with several faders part way up and then trading places. As the highest intensity drops it will effect all other colors until some other sub is the highest. Then only that color changes.

  • 0 in reply to RickR

    Call me crazy, but back in the day (2 years ago) when I first tried this, I remember that you had to change the Home value of the RGB to 0. If the home is 100, even if you record a sub with only RED in it, since the home of G and B you end up with White even when you run up red. If you record the subs to force the other colors to 0, then you end up with the behavior that Jeff has been having. 

    Josh. Even in the file you attached, I see the behavior as incorrect as when I go to Cue 0, the home value for RGB on channel 1 shows as 100. As I start to fade up the Red Sub since home is already 100, it just bumps to 100.  Granted I'm doing this offline, so maybe that is messing me up...

    I remember Anne a while back explaining that the home values were set as 100 so that when you took a LED ficture to intensity, you always saw something, preventing people from bringing the light to full, seeing nothing and then freaking out. I might be mis quoting but I feel it was something to that nature. 

     

    EDIT - Re read Josh's post. I totally skipped the part about having a base cue running that drives the LED's to 0. Sorry Josh.

     



    [edited by: travisres at 10:34 PM (GMT -6) on Tue, Mar 13 2012]
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  • 0 in reply to RickR

    Call me crazy, but back in the day (2 years ago) when I first tried this, I remember that you had to change the Home value of the RGB to 0. If the home is 100, even if you record a sub with only RED in it, since the home of G and B you end up with White even when you run up red. If you record the subs to force the other colors to 0, then you end up with the behavior that Jeff has been having. 

    Josh. Even in the file you attached, I see the behavior as incorrect as when I go to Cue 0, the home value for RGB on channel 1 shows as 100. As I start to fade up the Red Sub since home is already 100, it just bumps to 100.  Granted I'm doing this offline, so maybe that is messing me up...

    I remember Anne a while back explaining that the home values were set as 100 so that when you took a LED ficture to intensity, you always saw something, preventing people from bringing the light to full, seeing nothing and then freaking out. I might be mis quoting but I feel it was something to that nature. 

     

    EDIT - Re read Josh's post. I totally skipped the part about having a base cue running that drives the LED's to 0. Sorry Josh.

     



    [edited by: travisres at 10:34 PM (GMT -6) on Tue, Mar 13 2012]
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