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    cs2122
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Playback incorrect colour mix Colorsource 40 AV

When creating a colour mix and saving that to a playback fader, the incorrect values are being recalled. This happens with both RGB and CMY fixtures, but not for all values.

This has been tested across multiple fixtures both in the console and in a fresh show in the offline editor and the results are the same.

Example:

With the console in Channel mode I select the fixture by bringing up the relevant fader, I go to the colour menu and manually input the CMY values 64, 124, 138. I can visually confirm the fixture is showing the colour I want. Hit record and save this to a playback fader. Putting the console into Playback mode and bringing up the saved playback turns the light to full intensity but the colour is not the same as what I programmed. I can select the fixture and see the CMY values being recalled are actually 0, 89, 99.

I thought this might have been related to the specific fixture but have tried other CMY fixtures with the same problem, I thought this may have been a CMY issue but have confirmed it happens with RGBW fixtures also. The same happens if I save my colour mix as a pallete and record using that.

This doesn't occur when saving a single colour, only a colour mix and only at certain values. For some reason the colour mix 255, 223, 81, 255 on our RGBW fixture saves and recalls correctly, but other mixes I've tested with do not.

This seems like such a simple thing that I must be missing something obvious, but I've had multiple people look at it and find the same problem.

Hopefully someone can explain what is going on, thanks!

  • 0

    ColorSource has a highly advanced color system that ensures fades between cues and live mixes with recorded playbacks are always a "gel fade" or "gel mix".
    - For example, many other consoles will produce a "white flash" during many CMY crossfades (or dark flash for additive). On those consoles the programmer must spend some time adding complex delays or configuring curves to avoid this.

    ColorSource does it automatically - and you've probably never realized because "it just works".

    We have also found over the decades that many users are very confused by "dim" or "grey" color mixes.
    "I pushed up the fader and nothing happened" is a very common complaint on other consoles.

    To ensure that the color fade system can always do the expected 'gel fade' and to avoid this common confusion, the console attempts to ensure that at least one flag is fully out of the beam, or at least one LED emitter is at full in the recorded color.

    So if you manually input a mix where all the flags are partially inserted, or none of the emitters are at full, in current software the recorded values are adjusted to the "brightest version of" the color, and Intensity (real or virtual) is reduced to compensate.
    - eg for the CMY figures in your post, the recorded level would be 75%.

    With additive (LED) fixtures this results in the recorded cues, sequences and memory faders mixing color as you'd hope for.
    However, CMY is a more complex way of mixing color so this may not work quite as well there.

  • 0 in reply to Richard

    Hi Richard,

    Appreciate the response.

    That mostly makes sense now what's happening in the console, though still slightly annoying for our use case scenario.

    This console is in a lecture style theatre where we're not running cue into cue, we only require one look assigned to one playback fader so anyone can walk up to it and bring up the 'lectern spot' or 'panel spot' etc. 

    The CMY values I mentioned are to colour/temperature match the RGBW fixtures so the lighting is consistent between them mostly for camera's sake. When it recalls at the 0,89,99 values it's actually a completely different colour temperature to 64,124,138.

    Is there any workaround to make the console recall what we're trying to save, or should there theoretically be a different balance of values (where one of them is at full) that will be the correct match? I've had a play around and can't seem to find one so far.

    Cheers.

  • 0 in reply to cs2122

    Matching RGB(W) to CMY(K) is certainly a hard problem - ask any printer manufacturer!

    In theory there should be a close color match at full bright (at least one flag fully withdrawn) somewhere, however CMY is complicated and finding a decent color match for both eye and camera even more so...

    If the CMY fixture also has a CTC or CTO parameter then this will help a lot.

    Otherwise, you can make your own edited version that uses LTP CMY parameters instead of gelfade ones:

    1. Save the showfile to USB
    2. Open the showfile in the ColorSource Personality Editor 3.3.0 (or newer)
    3. Rename the mode so you can identify it
    4. Find the Cyan Magenta Yellow parameters and add a postfix to each of the parameter names:
      eg "Cyan LTP".
    5. These new parameters default to being under Beam, so click the beam icon to make them Color (rainbow icon) so they turn up under Color on the console.
    6. Save for Console to a USB stick
    7. Repatch the existing channels using this new personality.

    You'll need to re-record the CMY color mixes, but the rest should remain unchanged as long as you don't unpatch.

    Note that this will disable the color picker and gel fade functionality for the fixture.

  • 0 in reply to Richard

    Thanks Richard!

    I went the route of making a custom fixture profile and mostly having success but of course there's something that just doesn't want to play ball haha.

    For some reason I can't seem to get the new parameters to come up under the colour menu instead of beam.

    I copied the fixture and renamed it, in order to edit the colour names I have to change the 'Colour Mixing' option to Additive otherwise I can neither delete or edit the existing channels.

    Once I've changed the names to 'Cyan LTP' etc I click the icon to cycle them from 'Beam' to 'Colour' then hit 'Save for Console'.

    Even if I now close the editor, then reopen the file I've just created in the editor those parameters are showing the 'Beam' icon again. Any suggestions?

    At least now we can save the colour we want to a playback fader, but can't save the colour to quickly recall for programming without also saving other Beam parameters to the same palette.

    Thanks again

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