Clearing / "un-touching" Parameters

Richard J:

-on a slightly related note, does anyone know if it's possible to exit the show (having made a right mess of it) without saving ?

File>Open>(location)>show.asc - instead of pressing [Modify], press the right arrow and you'll see a list of show.001 to show.009 - those are the old versions of your show from the last 10 times you saved. The .asc is the last save you did, .001 the one before that etc.

So you can revert to older versions if it all goes to pot!

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions,

 I figured out the 'load previous show' thing in bed last night, that will work just fine.

I'll try the 'untouching' when I can get my paws on the desk this morning.

 Thanks again

 Richard

Hmmm...

 using 'c/alt' with the paramaters doesn't quite do what I want it to do. It removes the change flags but holds the value of the parameters on the output, I can get rid of them by fading them to zero or homing them before using the c/alt + parameter method but this is not the same thing.

-a value of 0 is not the same as no value. -and, if I have a large number of different fixtures it's a real pain to do.

Surely there must be a 'knockout' function where I select the fixtures I want rid of and hit a single button which knocks them out or releases them ?

Am I having problems with the basic philosophy of 'where am I working' when I dial up a fixture (ie. 'Live' v's 'Programmer' v's 'Active Field') ? or is this one for the future developement / feature request pile ?

I'm sorry if this sounds really obtuse (and fully accept that this may be a problem with my logic -as there are a number of related issues I have ) but it is important.

 Thanks again for your help and patience

Richard

I'm confused as to what you mean now.
What end result are you trying to achieve?

When you remove the change flag on a parameter, it means that the parameter will not be recorded when you hit (#) [Record] [Record].
It will have no effect on the current parameter values - how would Congo know which preset(s) you are intending to execute before this one?

Because parameters are LTP and tracking, if a parameter is not recorded it will remain whereever it was last positioned when you run the sequence/show.

Edit: Just figured out what you mean!

You have recorded a preset, and then decided that you want to erase the parameter value from that preset.

The main way of doing this is to use the Attribute Editor:

• Hit [Preset] to get the preset. (Alternatively, type the preset #, hold [Modify] and hit [Preset] to jump straight there)
  
• Scroll down to the preset you want to change.
• Move the gold focus to the 'Parameters' cell for the preset.
• Hit [Modify]
• Select the parameter cell(s) you want to delete.
• Hit [Delete]
• [Modify] to confirm

You can edit the attributes here as well - either by Palette (default), or in Absolute values.
[Setup] > Attribute settings > Attribute Editor Default to change between these two edit modes.

However, to edit attributes in a sequence, my favourite is the track list:

• Select the channels you want to change - max of about 24 IIRC
  
• Hit [Track] to get the tracklist for the sequence in the Main Playback.
  
• Hold [Format] and press [Focus], [Color], [Beam] or a wheel key.
• You get a lovely list of the attributes as they change throughout the show and can edit them as required.
• Note that at present you cannot erase attributes here - you can only change them.
  

You can also use the Unblock Wizard on a sequence, which will erase any repeated values back to the minimum required to do the show:

• Open the Sequence List you want to edit
• Hit [Wizard]
• Choose steps to unblock between
  
• [Modify]

I think your confusion is that you are thinking of the Hog Editor. The Live tab is not the same thing!
The important thing to remember is this:

There is no Live Editor, so you can't clear it.

Seriously - that concept does not exist in Congo.

• The Live tab always displays what is actually happening Live.
• The Live Attributes tab shows the current values of all attributes.
• If an attribute has a purple background (change flag set), it gets recorded.
• In an attribute does not (change flag cleared), then it does NOT get recorded.

(There are exceptions to this - you can force it to record all attributes, or none if you wish)

You can set or clear the purple change flag for the selected channels by using the Moving Light Display: Device>Set Changed/Clear Changed softkeys, or simply clear the flags by holding [C/Alt] and pressing the wheel key or F,C,B button.

Think of the 'purple' as being 'this is in my Hog-style editor'

I'll show a concrete example:

(This assumes that attribute recording is set to Automatic, which is the default setting) 

• Starting from all change flags clear - [Refresh] main playback, record something or [C/Alt] & [Focus][Color][Beam]
  
• I change the Pan and Tilt attributes on channels 1-6.
• These attributes turn purple.
  
• I change all the colours as well.
• These also turn purple.
  
• I then decide that I don't actually want to record the Focus for channels 4-6.
  
• I select channels 4-6, hold [C/Alt] and press [Focus]
• The purple around F on ch 4-6 is removed in Live, and the purple is removed from the Focus attributes in the Live Attributes tab.
• I hit [Record], check that "Record All Attributes" is not ticked, [Record]
• I've now recorded a preset containing the following:
• All intensities as they were at the moment of recording.
• Pan & Tilt for channels 1-3
• Colour attributes for channels 1-6
• All change flags have now been cleared because I've recorded, so I start making the next look.
  

This is very quick, and allows a great deal of flexibility in choosing which attributes should and shouldn't be recorded.

However, if you have already recorded the preset and want to go back and erase the data, then you have to use the Attribute Editor.
If it's a simple case of unblocking (the same value has been recorded lots of times), then there is a wizard to help you.

Remember that the Attribute Editor is a spreadsheet - you can select lots of cells at the same time using [Column], [Select], and the arrow keys.

One of the features of Congo is that intensities don't track, while attributes do.
Another feature is that the only difference between a moving light and a generic, is that the generic doesn't have any attributes.

Don't you think it would be incredibly confusing if moving light intensities tracked, while generics didn't?

To be honest, I think you need to get some formal training on the console - you're trying to apply things you know about the Hog directly to Congo, and the two consoles operate in different ways.
While there are a lot of similar features and capabilities, they are acheived differently.

We run monthly training sessions at our London office - click here for details.

Richard:

• The Live tab always displays what is actually happening Live.
• The Live Attributes tab shows the current values of all attributes

Ok, that's fine but 'where' is this information coming from ? I dial it up on the channel controller or parameter wheels and it goes live straight away ? is that what's happening ? -then fine, but if I can clear the intensites of the lamps I've altered, why not Paramaters ? -I suppose 'Refresh' is the answer

Richard:

Think of the 'purple' as being 'this is in my Hog-style editor'

Not quite because if I clear the Programmer on a Hog, all information in the programmer is discarded and the fixtures go back to their previous state.

Richard:

• I then decide that I don't actually want to record the Focus for channels 4-6.
  
• I select channels 4-6, hold [C/Alt] and press [Focus]
• The purple around F on ch 4-6 is removed in Live, and the purple is removed from the Focus attributes in the Live Attributes tab.

While the purple change flag may have gone, the lamps still physically reside where you have positioned them...

Ah... I think the penny's begining to drop, by changing their focus settings Live, you've overwritten their previous values (and as there's no 'undo' you're stuck with them where they are). I know they won't be recorded in the Preset your recording but this eems to be a very confusing way of working (and I'm not usually easily confused).

Philosophically, what is the advantage of this approach rather than the editor model ?

While I appreciate that the attribute editor may be a very powerful and detailed way to edit presets, there should also be a quicker and easier way to remove all traces of a fixture from a preset. 

As for tracking, I'd actually prefer an option that allowed the desk to be fully tracking. I think the distinction between intensities and other parameters is an artificial one.

I've actually already had some formal training on the desk, but have only just got my hands on one to drill down into its operation in detail. Some more training is on the cards in the not-too-distant future and I'll save my queries for then. 

I agree that my difficulties stem from coming from using desks which operate on a different logic (one which I've become particularly comfortable with) and the move to Congo is something of a Paradigm shift. I just wondered whether I was missing a simple trick in not being able to achieve the desired effect, it seems the prognosis is a little more serious.

Thanks again for your help and your patience.

Richard

Yes, resetting attributes back to the value given in Main Playback is a "Refresh" function.

Select the channels, hold [Refresh] & hit wheelkey/[Focus]/[Color]/[Beam]

(Now checked - this is right!)

The reason for the philisophical difference is mostly "This is the way Pronto did it".
It also makes it easier to create partially blocking cues - select channels, hold the {Set Changed} softkey and press the attributes you want to block.

There are some changes to attribute control coming in the next release which should make everybody's life easier - I'm really loving 4.3, but there is a lot more testing to do before we can release it.

With regards to the tracking - Congo simply isn't a fully tracking desk. It's just not part of the design.
The "Movefade" option for the crossfade brings it closer to tracking, but there is no difference between "Unrecorded" and "Intensity=0" so it's not true tracking - it's helpful for certain effects, but you wouldn't record a whole show that way.

And you are more than welcome - keep the questions coming, and feel free to call or email me direct if you need help!
 

Yes, resetting attributes back to the value given in Main Playback is a "Refresh" function.

Select the channels, hold [Refresh] & hit wheelkey/[Focus]/[Color]/[Beam]

(Now checked - this is right!)

The reason for the philisophical difference is mostly "This is the way Pronto did it".
It also makes it easier to create partially blocking cues - select channels, hold the {Set Changed} softkey and press the attributes you want to block.

There are some changes to attribute control coming in the next release which should make everybody's life easier - I'm really loving 4.3, but there is a lot more testing to do before we can release it.

With regards to the tracking - Congo simply isn't a fully tracking desk. It's just not part of the design.
The "Movefade" option for the crossfade brings it closer to tracking, but there is no difference between "Unrecorded" and "Intensity=0" so it's not true tracking - it's helpful for certain effects, but you wouldn't record a whole show that way.

And you are more than welcome - keep the questions coming, and feel free to call or email me direct if you need help!