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    Louis
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For the EOS System, a real Darkmove who deserves the name

This what called "Darkmove" is not a Darkmove.
Please, really very deep please, overwork that and correct it.
It is a horror and not usefull.

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  • Darkmove is not a "move while dark" feature on the Eos system. It is an indicator of attributes moving while the light is at 0 intensity. Please give us a better explanation of what you are looking for. Marking is probably what you are looking for but it is unclear. There is not an option on the console to force lights to go out when they move.
  • in reply to Druuka

    I say my wish in one of my last postings.

    I try to explain it new.

    Channel 1-10 are scrollers.
    They play in Cue 1-10 with Lee201. Cue 11 they out.
    Next time they play is from Cue 20 to 30, in Lee 106 (between L201 and L106 are 5-6-7 other Colors).
    Cue 31 to 40 they out.
    At Cue 41 to Cue 50 they back in with Lee201.

    In a Lightrehearsal the Channels also killed in Cue 20 to 30.

    So, at the end they play in Cue 1 to 10 in Lee201, next time they play from Cue 41 to Cue 50 also in Lee201
    And what will happen during Cue 20 to 30 in the show?
    Wright, i have a nice sound in my roof for nothing.
    With one or two Scrollers not a big Problem. But if you work with 50-60..... and you have every time noise and "empty scrolling" in the roof..... not good.
    Because the Console don't see they do not play and moves the Scrollers.
    I know this is a "Move-Console", but sorry, it is a Software.... i can simulate on a Macintosh a Win10, i can simulate on a Windows PC an Adroid,.... so it can't be impossible to create a real Darkmove.

    Similar Problems if i change MovingLights. I must check after every change, from where does the MH comes, where do he go next. If he move during fade out, i must make @ENTER Out. So i must store the changed Cue and the Cue with the Fade Out.
    Double work....

    A 25-30 years old Transtechnik System can handle this correct.

    The Darkmove on EOS System is not a Darkmove.
    I know, ican also make @ENTER. But the time i safe during programming a show i must spend later for a Clean Up.
    But i have not really an idea what a LD wishes if he come the Rehearsal. And during at i must react fast and safe. So i have normaly not the time for a parallel Clean Up.
    Thats bad and not usefull.
    The Darkmove is not a Darkmove.
    (If i wanne have some like this, i can also buy a GrandMA....)

    And sorry, on a Transtechnik is a menu called 425. This clean up the empty move from Tracklist for import a show to an EOS System
    This menu on the TT is only create and build for this Exportoption. So that's a sign, the EOS have Probs with Darkmove and can't really handle "Zerocounts" for Channels.

Reply
  • in reply to Druuka

    I say my wish in one of my last postings.

    I try to explain it new.

    Channel 1-10 are scrollers.
    They play in Cue 1-10 with Lee201. Cue 11 they out.
    Next time they play is from Cue 20 to 30, in Lee 106 (between L201 and L106 are 5-6-7 other Colors).
    Cue 31 to 40 they out.
    At Cue 41 to Cue 50 they back in with Lee201.

    In a Lightrehearsal the Channels also killed in Cue 20 to 30.

    So, at the end they play in Cue 1 to 10 in Lee201, next time they play from Cue 41 to Cue 50 also in Lee201
    And what will happen during Cue 20 to 30 in the show?
    Wright, i have a nice sound in my roof for nothing.
    With one or two Scrollers not a big Problem. But if you work with 50-60..... and you have every time noise and "empty scrolling" in the roof..... not good.
    Because the Console don't see they do not play and moves the Scrollers.
    I know this is a "Move-Console", but sorry, it is a Software.... i can simulate on a Macintosh a Win10, i can simulate on a Windows PC an Adroid,.... so it can't be impossible to create a real Darkmove.

    Similar Problems if i change MovingLights. I must check after every change, from where does the MH comes, where do he go next. If he move during fade out, i must make @ENTER Out. So i must store the changed Cue and the Cue with the Fade Out.
    Double work....

    A 25-30 years old Transtechnik System can handle this correct.

    The Darkmove on EOS System is not a Darkmove.
    I know, ican also make @ENTER. But the time i safe during programming a show i must spend later for a Clean Up.
    But i have not really an idea what a LD wishes if he come the Rehearsal. And during at i must react fast and safe. So i have normaly not the time for a parallel Clean Up.
    Thats bad and not usefull.
    The Darkmove is not a Darkmove.
    (If i wanne have some like this, i can also buy a GrandMA....)

    And sorry, on a Transtechnik is a menu called 425. This clean up the empty move from Tracklist for import a show to an EOS System
    This menu on the TT is only create and build for this Exportoption. So that's a sign, the EOS have Probs with Darkmove and can't really handle "Zerocounts" for Channels.

Children
  • in reply to Louis

    It sounds like you are looking for a cleanup utility that would remove unnecessary moves.  

    I get that a cleanup utility would be nice.

    I haven't used any Transtechnik consoles but if they are 25 years old I doubt they handle the number of channels/complex programming that the Eos family does.  It's great that they have features you like.  

    We all have systems for cleaning up moves and dealing with moves during programming.  Some of this is helped by using palettes and presets.  Some is helped by using the marking tools in the console.  

    I read the Darkmove section of the NTX console.  It sounds interesting.  

    Every manufacturer spends time on different features for their different console lines.   

    I'm not sure what you mean that josh can't really handle "Zerocounts" for channels.  What is it not doing in that respect?

    In the end these are all tools.  I'm just trying to understand what the features are that you are looking for.  

  • in reply to Druuka
    Hmmmm, if the System works wright with an "empty move" then i don't must Clean Up anything...
    The prob with a Zerocount for a Channel is like this:
    Channel 1 is at Zero. Select it and then make +%.
    You will see, the Channel will light up in the Steps you say in Setup.
    Now try the same with Channel 1 and 2 select same time.
    Both at Zero and then press +%.
    They don't light up, you get a Faultmessage, Channellist is empty.

    For me as a User the only different is, in Case one i choose only one Channel, in Case two i choose two Channels.
    So it seams, the System can't not really handle with a Cout of Zero.
    Because if the System can handle wright with a Zeorcount for a Intensitychannel the question for a Darkmove is never exist
    If the System see wright -Hey their is a Zerocount for Intensity so it dosen't is practical to scroll (or move any other Parameter for a lamp) a Scroller- then the Darkmoveprob is not a prob, because it dosen't exist.

    On Transtechniksystem is a Feature called "Beteiligtenschwelle", sorry don't know what it is called in english.
    But this Feature means, only Intensitycount above this Count will and can be stored.
    Means, you set in Setup this "Beteiligtenschwelle" at 99% so all Channels under 99% Intensity (and with this all Parameters for Lamps have more then Intensity) are not in a Cue. Never.
    Normaly this Schwelle is set at 1%. if then a Channel is at Zero, the System ignore all Parameters for a Lamp and don't store it.
    With this kind i get never a empty move in my Show.

    In this case you kick of now a MH in a Cue. So all the Paramters the MH have will be ignore and he stands still if you run this Cue.
    He get his Information what he must do from last Step in that he is used (means have more then 1% Intensity) and drive (on EOS System) one Cue before he used in the next Step to his new Position.
    On a Transtechnik i can say, he looks 1 to endless Steps forward, What must you do next?
    I can say how big must be the different for a DMX Channel thats it is a Change for the Conole.
    And -thats is a very good Feature- i can give every Parameter of a Lamp an own Darkmovetime.
    Means, must the Pan-Tilt move with a Darkmove i can say, do this in 5 Seconds. But the Gobo, Zoom, Focus, Frost,.... can do the same job in 1 Second.
    This is usefull special for Scrollers. Becaus then you can say to the String, drive in Dark in 10 Seconds from Startcolor to the Color you used next. Thats you fixed in Setup for a Lamp.
    And with this kind you reduce the noise in your roof.

    So if you look, what a very old Transtechniksystem can do with "Move in Dark" and a EOS System works,.... it is not a Darkmove.
    Some Guys tell me, the EOS is a "Movecontrolsystem" and a Transtechnik is a "Presetsystem".
    Yes.... okay....
    But both are only Computers.
    It must be possible to create a good solution.
    If you come and work before with a Transtechniksystem -and the TT Console get many many Features from the EOS System build in- you will also say, the Darkmove on a EOS System is not a Darkmove.
  • in reply to Louis
    Another Example why the Darkmove is not a Darkmove:
    Think about you have Scrollers. Fist Color is Lee XY last Color is Lee YX. The Scroller has 16 Colors.
    You need in Cue 1 all your Scrollers with Color 1. Then 10-20-30 Cue they not in. Next time you need them is then with the last Color.
    Direct before you need them in the Cue they all will scroll the complet range...
    You can stop this.
    If you made in a Cue before a 1% Count Intensity for the Scrollers with the first Color. And then in next Step give them a discrete Fadetime for the Scrollerstring like 30 Seconds with an Intensitycount of also 1% and the last Color.
    And then in the next Step you can use the Scroller at the Count you need them in real.
    You must find a Timespace where you can do that...

    You see, you must for Noisereduction program two "Extracuess" or Steps or Parameter or whoever you wanne call it.
    You must do more work then it is usefull.
    Why?
    Because the System say by himself, Okay i scroll all Scrollers direct before use complet in the Time thats sets for all Parameters thats work with a Markfunction. The System can't handle different times for different Parameters.

    You see, thats real Probs with thats what called "Darkmove" (or it is okay if some say it is a "Movecontrol").
    And thats not helpfull and need a Solution i think.
  • in reply to Louis
    first of all, it's not called Darkmove. it's called Automark. different functions work differently on different consoles.
    darkmove has a different meanting on Eos, so let's just use the correct terminology, please.

    yes, Eos currently decides that automark will always happen 1 cue before.
    no, Eos doesn't let you choose how many cues ahead you want to mark in general
    no, Eos doesn't let you choose how many cues ahead you want to mark on a per channel basis (neither did NTX)
    no, Eos doesn't let you decide on a fixture level in patch which mark time a parameter should use
    yes, Eos let's you choose for each parameter in every single cue which time you want to use (which NTX didn't let you)

    everything you want to do is possible by using Referenced Marking, but then you need to make a decision in which cues you want to mark. but then you can decide for every fixture where it should mark, which NTX couldn't do.

    either use Automark and the console will decide, or do the extra work of deciding yourself and use referenced marking.
  • in reply to ueliriegg
    I say, the System can not a Darkmove.
    Not my first time i say exact this...
    And i also say thats bad and a Step backwards for me.

    Okay, then my wish is i wanne get a Darkmove.

    And if i decide a work without Automark, the Problem with empty moves is not gone away.
    If i choose a Lamp, try it in a Cue and then i decide i don't need it, i set the Intensitycount at Zero.
    And the System do the move. Because the System don't see, this is not usefull, it is unable to detect and avoid unnecessary movement.
    Thats incorrect and not helpfull.
    We can talk ever and ever and ever about how what will have wich name.
    But thats all do not help.
    If a Lamp is at Zero with Intensity it must be possible say this Lamp, don't move any of your Parameters.
    Where is please the sense about thats i have movements without light? For what will i ever use this "Option"?
    Only for Sound in the roof....
    it will be also very helpfull if i can give every Parameter his own Movetime.
    Thats all i wanne have.

    I'am here in the "Tell me what you want, tell me your idea" Board.
    I tell it.
  • in reply to Louis
    Sounds like what he is really looking for is a "darkdon'tmove" - a feature that prevents lights from moving if they are dark now and projected to be dark in the next cue
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