How can this happen?

Joe;

I am sorry to hear you are having problems and happy to try and help. I have a few questions:

• How are your MIDI cables plugged in and how many connections between the consoles?
• What type of MIDI are you using Note control or Show control?
• If show control what are the settings in each desk?
• Are you just using the GO on the Insight to send a command or are you doing this via linked Macros?
• If Macros can you give me the text within the Macro?
• When Q22 plays in the Insight, does it run any auto loads or linked cues that may move the pointer in the cue stack?

I look forward to your answers and hope we can find a solution for you.

• MIDI In on I3 MIDI out on SFML so 1.
• standard MIDI cable also tried a new Hosa MIDI standard cable (They have both worked before having problems. Also didn't know there's a difference?)
• In the 6.Options menu on I3, 1. is set to number 1 and 2. is set to 1/0
• Yes I'm just using [GO] on the I3 to control the stack on both consoles to send the command. Don't know any other way.
• No macros are ever linked into the I3 cue stack from the SFML
• No - not sure what that means? the yellow arrow?

Joe thank you for your reply.

I am a little confused in reading your answers. On the back of the Insight console the MIDI cable is in the MIDI IN port and on the SmartFade Console the MIDI cable is in the OUT port? Is this correct? I only ask because you mention you are using GO from the Insight to trigger the SmartFade, but with the cables plugged in this manner it seems mike the SmartFade would be triggering the Insight.  

In the Options settings on the Insight the ETC MIDI Channel is 1 (option 1) and MIDI Show control Device IDs is set for  receiver device 1 and transmitter device 0 (option 2) correct?

What are your MIDI settings in the SmartFade ML? You can access them in the Menu-Setup-MIDI menus. Could you let me know what you see in the following menus?

Menu-Setup-MIDI-MSC Channel

Menu-Setup-MIDI-MIDI Channel

Menu-Setup-MIDI-Controller Patch

This will help confirm the below suspicion.

I suspect the problem is that  you are communicating between the 2 consoles via MIDI note control as opposed to Midi Show control. This could cause the problem you are seeing.  If you are sending commands from the Insight (MIDI OUT from Insight to MIDI IN on SmartFade ML) via Midi note control, when you press {Go} on the Insight it sends out the MIDI note command [Program Change 0]. The SmartFade ML will read this command as {Reset stack, go to step 0}.

If you are sending commands from the SmartFade ML (MIDI OUT from SmartFade to MIDI IN on Insight)  Pressing {Go} on the SmartFade will send a MIDI note command [Program Change 125], which would case the Insight to Play cue 125 (if it exists).

Via MIDI Show control you assign a device ID for your transmitting device and one for your receiving device. The message sent via MIDI Show control is different from note control. It will either send a [GO] which plays the next cue in order, or you can send a specific [Go CUE #] command which plays a specific cue. I think this is the better communication method between these two consoles as note control is going to provide some incompatibilities.

Let me know what your setting are in your SmartFade and I can help put this all together so it will work.  Additionally if you want to send me your show files from both consoles. I am happy to look at it up here (in Wisconsin).

My email address is David.fox@etcconnect.com

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Joe-

Another question- What version of software are you running in boththe Insight and the Smartfade?

Ok, I had another show last night and of course it happened 3 times.

Here is the correct info. Sorry at the time posted i was just guessing.

SF MIDI IN, I3 MIDI OUT

SF MIDI is set on channel 2    MSC ID 0

I3 MIDI channel 1    MSC 1/0

I'll also follow up on your most recent post after i post this

ok, to answer the rest of your questions...

I'm not familar with controller patch yet.

I3 is V 3.1

SFML is V 3.0.1.1.0.39.

I can give you both files, but i'll have to do it tomorrow, I checked both live and in blind and i don't have any link or follow or anything that would change the correct order, as it should also change the cue number in the I3 together. So that shouldn't be a problem.

Both console together normally function together when pushing the following buttons, [GO], [Back], [Cue] [#] [Enter]. Those are the only buttons pressed for any of my shows.

the most notable "bug" is when i go from cue 30 to cue 30.1 on the Insight 3. The SFML seems to always jump back 8 cues to cue 26.5. So at least the performers are lit, but the moving lights are in the Home - B/O  position. If the I3 were to also be on cue 26.5, it would be a House Half cue.

 So please tell me if I need to change some numbers around in the MIDI and MSC settings.

ok, to answer the rest of your questions...

I'm not familar with controller patch yet.

I3 is V 3.1

SFML is V 3.0.1.1.0.39.

I can give you both files, but i'll have to do it tomorrow, I checked both live and in blind and i don't have any link or follow or anything that would change the correct order, as it should also change the cue number in the I3 together. So that shouldn't be a problem.

Both console together normally function together when pushing the following buttons, [GO], [Back], [Cue] [#] [Enter]. Those are the only buttons pressed for any of my shows.

the most notable "bug" is when i go from cue 30 to cue 30.1 on the Insight 3. The SFML seems to always jump back 8 cues to cue 26.5. So at least the performers are lit, but the moving lights are in the Home - B/O  position. If the I3 were to also be on cue 26.5, it would be a House Half cue.

 So please tell me if I need to change some numbers around in the MIDI and MSC settings.

First of all, General MIDI should be off (disabled) in both consoles.
This is the part of MIDI that uses a MIDI Channel, and it sounds like you may have it enabled.

You only want MIDI Show Control (MSC).

For MSC to work, both the sending and receiving consoles need to have the same MSC Device ID. I would suggest using "1".

SmartFade defaults to "All", which means it will respond to everything.

Ok, I'll try that at tonights show.

So just to be sure, it should be enter as this.

• Insight 3 
• ETC MIDI Channel   -   Disabled
• MIDI Show Control Device ID's   -   1/1
• SFML
• MIDI CH   [1]      [OFF]
• DEV ID  [ALL]    [ON] 

Would this be correct?

Well, I guess that was the problem. I huge thank you to all involved!!! I've been having this problem for years and so far 1 show complete with no bugs!!!! It must have been the MIDI enabled  and SFML set to MIDI ON causing the problems, that was in my notes from long ago.

But 1 night doesn't mean it can't happen again. I will post if there is any of those problems until the end of the show run.

 Thanks Again!     ETC Rocks!!!

Just want to mention 1 problem I found last night.

When I select [ALL] it doesn't work. But when I select the correct number, [1], Then it works!

Don't know why [ALL] doesn't work.

Joe;

I am glad we found a solution to your problem and I am sorry you had to suffer through it for so long.  In an oversimplified answer, when the SmartFade is Set to {All} it is listening to all MIDI channels and may not catch the command at the right time or may hear noise on another channel and interpret it as a command.

Please feel free to call on us again if you have additional questions.