Expression DMX In

A longer answer then what the question called for:

The way Emphasis works, is it takes over the Expression, using a boot disk that makes the Expression into a Facepanel.  As such, much of the console processing is done on the Emphasis, as well as the 3.5" floppy drive on the Expression being disabled (the Emphasis server has a floppy on the front, as well as an HD storage, plus USB drives).  The Emphasis connects to the Expression via a Cat5 cable, thru a Ethernet switch (the shop sent one - correct ? - ETC sends out a 5 port with a new install). 

As such, the Emphasis 'puter has no connections for DMX, everything is either done via nodes on the Net2 network (as a connection off the the local, or a distant Cat5 switch), or from the DMX outputs on the Expression.  Someone from ETC can confirm whether the DMX ports on the Expression facepanel are configurable the same way as Net2 node DMX ports - I.E., via Net2 Configuration Editor software (it sometimes resides on the Emphasis desktop).  I don't believe so. ETC would also know how to deal with the DMX in port on an Expression.  I'm going to guess that it's the same as plain vanilla Expression - I.E. you have to do a channel map of incoming DMX addresses to the appropriate console channels.  Hopefully, the Emphasis channel count is at least equal to or greater then plain Expression (Emphasis started at 500 channels and you paid for XX more).  I'm also going to guess that the ONLY DMX in to the console, is thru the DMX in port on the console.  Usually, a node configured for DMX input is to drive DMX values in the Net2 system from a separate console.

The Emphasis OS is really only Express/ion software with an embedded WYSIWYG visualization front end.  You can build up a WYG plot and set levels, ML positions and attributes .  Emphasis uses WYG 17, so any file needs to be backwards converted.

Do I remember a post about how you have this system in WYG 23 or so -

"As the programmer/board op. its my job to make all the "maps" (plots) of the sets and lights for the gaffer and crew and to put together all the paperwork to support the rig - channel sheets, dimmer schedules ect. ect. I'm using WYSIWG r23. Most people in the industry use VW, one uses vw with show designer and a lot use the mod. 1A pencil. All my paperwork is in Excel since I've only had a week to plot and its faster to come up with schedules when all u have is dimmers and circuits and no lights."

I'm not going searching on LightNetwork.

Steve B.

Steve,

yup that's me, though my signature says I'm still on Rescue Me.  Your discussion of how the Expression interfaces with Emphasis is enlightening.  Searching the forums there is a post that states that a faceplate can be booted in "standalone" mode using a boot disk.  There are 4 dmx ports on the back (!).  It is my understanding that booting the console into standalone mode enables the 4 hardwired DMX ports (or at least what ever the faceplate was lableled for, with 4 ports I'm hoping that its at least 1200 channels.)   The post talks about issues if the system is based on a Node 2 setup which ours is not. Bottom line if I can't make the new console work I'll just drag over the other one.  

Though I'm plotting in WYG 23 that's all we're doing - plotting.  In no way would I ever consider building a setup in WYG 17 that would drive the units on the movie...there are way too many variables that happen at a moments notice to facilitate wyging the project for control.  I'm still not convinced that plotting in wyg is even worthwile... I'm thinking of makeing a base plot in 1/4" mode and having all the big lights be attached with pins - like the generals during the war.  At least that's tried and true.

I'm correct in my ascertation that for two expressions to work the same rig I need a DMX Merge box?  I think the gaffer's idea was that I could setup the second expression and program chases and stuff in line of sight and have the 1st one available to work on the other set for the riggers.  I don't think that's possible.  My understanding of DMX in is that the Master console triggers cues on the slave console using pre-recorded cues as focus points in the master consoles setup.

The manual is a little unclear unless you know all the issues it talks about.

Steve,

yup that's me, though my signature says I'm still on Rescue Me.  Your discussion of how the Expression interfaces with Emphasis is enlightening.  Searching the forums there is a post that states that a faceplate can be booted in "standalone" mode using a boot disk.  There are 4 dmx ports on the back (!).  It is my understanding that booting the console into standalone mode enables the 4 hardwired DMX ports (or at least what ever the faceplate was lableled for, with 4 ports I'm hoping that its at least 1200 channels.)   The post talks about issues if the system is based on a Node 2 setup which ours is not. Bottom line if I can't make the new console work I'll just drag over the other one.  

Though I'm plotting in WYG 23 that's all we're doing - plotting.  In no way would I ever consider building a setup in WYG 17 that would drive the units on the movie...there are way too many variables that happen at a moments notice to facilitate wyging the project for control.  I'm still not convinced that plotting in wyg is even worthwile... I'm thinking of makeing a base plot in 1/4" mode and having all the big lights be attached with pins - like the generals during the war.  At least that's tried and true.

I'm correct in my ascertation that for two expressions to work the same rig I need a DMX Merge box?  I think the gaffer's idea was that I could setup the second expression and program chases and stuff in line of sight and have the 1st one available to work on the other set for the riggers.  I don't think that's possible.  My understanding of DMX in is that the Master console triggers cues on the slave console using pre-recorded cues as focus points in the master consoles setup.

The manual is a little unclear unless you know all the issues it talks about.

Let me see if I understand what you're trying to do -

You have two Expressions, running hard-line DMX into the rig. You want to be able to program two different parts of the rig independently on the two consoles.

You can do this, you can use mergers to blend the output of the two consoles into one DMX stream per universe for the rig. Just know that there's no connection between the two consoles at all, so if you control the same dimmer from both desks, the merger will handle that HTP between the two sources, which could get interesting.

You would need either 4 mergers, or a merger that's built to handle multiple incoming and outgoing universes.

The show files on both desks would be independent from each other. This is not a multi-user system. Desk 1 would not be able to trigger desk 2 unless you connect them using MIDI.

Make sense?

Thanks -

Sarah

Thank you for clarifying Sarah.

Do I have DMX In correctrly in that it uses one console to cue another?  And that the slave console shows up as basicly a preset to the master?  I'm still not clear on how that works.  But I do understand the two espressions merged portion of the lesson. 

so many channels...

word to the wise -  never hit "clear cue" on  a movie.

ever.

DMX In lets you capture incoming DMX values from another console.  You then record those values into cues (or subs I presume) and can then play them back as part of the primary cue list.

You need to assign the incoming DMX addresses to un-used channels, so you need to reserve a range of channels to assign the incoming DMX into, and then reference them to Focus Point 0 (as to why , I have no idea).  You can then view the channels and grab the levels.

There's no other triggering required as the incoming DMX data becomes part of the master cue structure.

The Expression manual has more details - http://www.etcconnect.com/downloads.aspx

And as commentary to past posts, here, on CB and LN, I can see where you and Kelly are going to want to think seriously about moving to Eos/Ion consoles down the road (If your next movie is as big)  What with multiple consoles running the same rig, needs for remote terminal (radio remote focus units), merged cue lists, etc...  much of what you guys are wanting to do are cludgy on Expression, but tailor made for Eos/Ion.  Just a thought.

Steve B.

I have the manual  but I'm still fuzzy.  So any incomeing channels must be free in the master console?  The out put of the DMX in doesn't show up as 1 channel in the master console?

We were close to going with an ION but all the gaffers (3) weren't comfortable with dealing with a learning curve.  The way to go is to hook up an ION with an expression, probably merged, so that the ION can mirror the expression till the operator gets used to it.  I've run an ION for 3 or 4 days and its fine.  But I'm waiting for the next software upgrade so that we can put effects on subs before I really try and work on it.

Hi there -

DMX input is not used for triggering. It's more like a merge. Typically it's used to capture and record the incoming DMX from another console into the cues or subs of the receiving console. If you have things patched on top of each other, it can get really really confusing. So, typically it's set up so that channels 1-512 just take the incoming DMX levels so that you can easily store the look from the other console.

Make sense?

Thanks -

Sarah

"I have the manual  but I'm still fuzzy.  So any incomeing channels must be free in the master console?  The out put of the DMX in doesn't show up as 1 channel in the master console?"

Ed,

Remember that the incoming DMX data is DMX ONLY, it's not channel info. from the sending console.  Thus, the receiving console needs to "patch" the incoming DMX into different  console channels then what is already in use in the receiving console, thus the need to keep the requesite channels free.  I assume the need to assign to a Focus Point has to do with the fact that the incoming DMX is not part of the standard console patch and the the Focus Point "buffer" is where the console references the channel levels for incoming DMX data.

One method to avoid confusion is keep the channel assigments and patch the same on the sending and receiving consoles, then put any other channels on the receiving console in a range above the merge (at least that's how I did it once).

The difficulty in your case is you seemingly have a lot of console channels in use, possibly with no/few spares, possibly as a one-to-one patch (common film/TV setup), thus using DMX in may not be at all helpful. 

Just some thoughts

Steve B.