Need help creating a lighting effect/cue

I'd be tempted to build an effect using all the channels you want in each step, at specified 'random-like' levels, with random rates and times. If you want it simple for operation, have a dark cue in your stack trigger a macro (firing off the effect sub), and autofollowing to a restore cue (which also stops the effect via a similar macro) after a set length of time. You can go into the sub list, and set the effect sub to 'hold'.

So step one could have random stage channels bright, houselights at low levels, step two could have other random stage lights bright, and houselights at low levels (but maybe not the same as step one), step three could have house lights bright and random stage lights on but dim, etcetera... The whole 'channel in an effect _at_a_level_' feature is one of my favourites on the express series, and is too often overlooked.

Simple walkthrough (disregard if you're already following me here):

[blind][sub][S2- sub list][arrow down or type selected sub number][arrow across to dwell column][clear][arrow over to type column][3][arrow over to rate][500][stage] (the rate thing's optional, but I recommend it for a flicker effect - you can do it in the effect itself too, though)

[blind][sub]['previously selected sub number'][enter][1][enter]

['stage channels'][S8- add channels][at]['levels'] - repeat as desired, using whatever channels and levels you feel would look good for part of the effect

[S1 - Step][2] (repeat process as step one with other levels in other channels as your whim suits)

Continue building steps until you get bored, or you feel you've had enough. Don't forget to record the effect - I tend to record between steps, just to be safe, with [Record][enter][S1]['next step number'][enter].

You may want to play with random rates/random attributes as well, to make the effect more "flickery".

i will give these a try this Sunday/Monday and see how they work! Thank You!!!

Also, a side question....

 Can a run a sub or something effect in the background of a my first cue for a song and keep it running until i can make it stop at the end? For instance, like cue 2 starts it and 2.5 is a solo, 2.6 is a restore and 2.9 is the end of song.

Is there a way to have a 3 step fading effect, while i execute other cues and have it stop in cue 2.9? Or is this only something in the Ion? Or do I have to keep a submaster effect on while in the entire song, only bringing it to zero at cue 2.9?

One way to do this is to set the effect sub to hold, write a macro to start the effect sub, link it to the cue you want it to start in, and run a macro to stop it in the last cue (by linking it in the cue list, too).

[blind][sub][s2-sub list]['sub #'][enter][arrow to dwell column][clear - changes dwell to 'hold'][stage] does the first part, setting the effect sub to stay on until bumped again.

[learn][#][enter][sub bump button][enter macro] teaches the board what you want the macro to do, in this case, start or stop the effect. You can choose to add a [page][x][enter] before the bump button in the macro if you might be off that sub page when the effect is supposed to start - you can also use the on sub bump and off sub bump functions (find this under [setup][8][enter][s7 - more][s1 or s2 keys] ) by editing the macros directly. for this you'd be using discrete macro numbers for switching the effect on and off in your cue list.

[blind][s2 - cue list][cue #][enter][arrow to link column][enter macro][#][enter][stage]  adds the macro to the cue - but be careful if you also use autofollows - they can interrupt a macro before it triggers, bypassing it.

Edit: Just noticed for the console you're on, for that first part: pressing S2 after you've selected your sub will toggle Hold, so you wouldn't need to arrow over and press clear to modify the effect sub. You can use [blind][sub][s2][x][enter][s2][stage], where x is your effect sub.

Just programmed a 10 step effect into the sub, to see what it might look like in the offline editor. So next I'll have to take each of these steps and record them to separate subs, i'm guessing and build it that way for the lights flickering effect to work within the cues.

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Ok, so I'm now confused again...

I thought a macro was a series of commands in the command line (reading up on the Ion) that allow you to push 1 button instead of 20.

 So when you said write a macro to start the effect sub and [enter macro] teaches the board what to do,  what is that referring to?

JHarpur said:

One way to do this is to set the effect sub to hold, write a macro to start the effect sub, link it to the cue you want it to start in, and run a macro to stop it in the last cue (by linking it in the cue list, too).

[blind][sub][s2-sub list]['sub #'][enter][arrow to dwell column][clear - changes dwell to 'hold'][stage] does the first part, setting the effect sub to stay on until bumped again.

[learn][#][enter][sub bump button][enter macro] teaches the board what you want the macro to do, in this case, start or stop the effect. You can choose to add a [page][x][enter] before the bump button in the macro if you might be off that sub page when the effect is supposed to start - you can also use the on sub bump and off sub bump functions (find this under [setup][8][enter][s7 - more][s1 or s2 keys] ) by editing the macros directly. for this you'd be using discrete macro numbers for switching the effect on and off in your cue list.

[blind][s2 - cue list][cue #][enter][arrow to link column][enter macro][#][enter][stage]  adds the macro to the cue - but be careful if you also use autofollows - they can interrupt a macro before it triggers, bypassing it.

Edit: Just noticed for the console you're on, for that first part: pressing S2 after you've selected your sub will toggle Hold, so you wouldn't need to arrow over and press clear to modify the effect sub. You can use [blind][sub][s2][x][enter][s2][stage], where x is your effect sub.

The sequence to record a macro on an Insight (or any other Express console) is

[learn]['macro number'][enter]['macro keystrokes'][enter macro] (On my offline version, enter macro is labelled macro enter.)

So, in this scenario, [learn][5][enter]['sub 4 bump button'--reads as 'Bump4'][enter macro] would record Macro 5 as a tap of the bump button for sub 4.

Alternately, you could record this macro by going to the macro editor screen -

[setup][8][enter][5][enter]['sub 4 bump button'][enter macro][stage] - for the same result.

If you then link macro 1 to cues 29 and 29.5, say, and sub 4 has a 'hold' in the dwell column, and is a 10-step effect, when you run cue 29 the effect should start, and when you run cue 29.5 the effect should stop. (If the effect is already running because the bump was used previous to executing q29, it will stop until 29.5, whereupon it will start again.) A 'held' sub's LED flashes rapidly when active.

I frequently use macro numbers that match cue numbers so I know where they've been used - and you may want to put up or down times on the sub, to match the fade times of the cues if you don't want the effect to snap in or out.

Hope this clarifies things for you.

J

Yes, Thank You!

Ok, So I just tried it and it didn't do what I wanted it to do. All I seen was my first step flash to FL and that was the end of it.

 I then re recorded it to macro 22 and placed it at cue 51. Now I get a warning stating Maximum macro length reached. Press enter to continue

I did [Learn] [Macro Enter] [22] [Enter] Confirm [Enter] [Bump button 69] ( [Enter] i think )

These button are flashing like crazy [Cue] [Chan] [At] [M*] I think it running every cue in the list from press [M*] 22. I will keep trying i guess

Not sure if this makes sense either but I'm using a sub on page 2.

I also build the steps how I want each effect to look like using in & out times, but on sub list page, I have time 0. and on manual

It sounds like a couple of things are happening - One, that the effect sub doesn't have "Hold" as a dwell time - try

[blind][sub][S2 - Sub List][69][enter][S2 - Hold][Stage]

(That should stop the single step flash you're seeing, and remove Manual from the Dwell column.)

and two, from that error message,it looks like you didn't stop recording macro 22 properly - you can check this by looking at [setup][8 - macro editing][22]. I'm guessing M22 will be quite long, and will have several [A-B Go] entries within.

The correct keystroke sequence should be

[Learn][22][enter][-enter again only if M22 already exists, to confirm-][bump button 69][Macro Enter]

If you're using page two for your effects, and since the console may be on another pageat the time the cue executes (the board defaults to page one on startup), you might be wise putting a

[page][2][enter]

sequence immediately in front of [Bump69] in the macro - but keep in mind every keystroke you add makes the macro longer - and increases the chance that the operator will inadvertently add live keystrokes to the macro's execution during the run.

The times placed in the effect still work as in and out times for each of the effect's steps - the time in the sub list is the fade time for the effect itself in and out - not unlike manually running the effect fader slowly, rather than snapping it up, the effect comes in proportionally in the time set. In other words, setting a time of 4 in the in time column for sub 69 and holding the bump button down (either physically or using the Hold feature) looks just like running the fader up from 0 to Full on a 4 count.

In your case, if this is still the flicker effect you were mentioning, I'd use an in time of zero and an out time matching the down time of your last 'effect cue', whatever that may be.

If you're still having problems, and can attach your show file, I could take a look at it and see what's going on.

J

Ok, so I got it to work again, thank you!

But i'm having a problem stopping the effect. The bump button keeps flashing, running the effect.

I went into [setup] [8] [enter] macro [22] [enter], and it reads Page 2 Bump69 OffBump69. now nothing is happening.

So how do I give it a run only once command? Or twice for a different effect?

Then I [Link] Macro [22] to [Cue] [51]... Right? This is how i've been doing this all

If I have anymore problems, I will just execute all effects via bump buttons.

Sometimes, I wish there was another person helping me with this, but for a year now, I've done it all by myself! (Including the 12 movers!! with the SFML!)

You may need to get rid of the offbump command in the macro you recorded - what you're telling the console to do is "run this-stop now", but what I think you want is to toggle the effect state.

If you want your effect to run only once, on the Insight, the simplest way at this point is to calculate the run time of one cycle of the effect*, and have your macro execute as 

[Page2][enter][Bump69][Macro Wait]['cycle time'][enter][Offbump][69][enter]

[Macro Wait] is right between [M*] and [Macro Enter] on the console.

For a different effect, like having the effect run twice, run a different macro - with the main difference being the cycle time - the Macro Wait time, that is - would be doubled.

* To calculate the cycle time, calculate the sum of the Time column for all steps, multiply by 100, and then divide by the effect's rate. If the rate is unchanged from the default, i.e. 100, skip the multiply-and-divide bit.

Ok, I think its working now.

I had to put FOH lights on for safety measures, so I know when to trigger the next cue. So in my understanding, I can run other subs & cues, while the macro is running...right!? from this timed mode.

And I just have to link the first cue i need it to execute in. as long as I have a "time", i should be ok.

I think ETC should make a [End Macro] button, so I can link that to a cue instead of having to figure out my total times.    And might as well make an option on # of loops to infinity!

Ok, I think its working now.

I had to put FOH lights on for safety measures, so I know when to trigger the next cue. So in my understanding, I can run other subs & cues, while the macro is running...right!? from this timed mode.

And I just have to link the first cue i need it to execute in. as long as I have a "time", i should be ok.

I think ETC should make a [End Macro] button, so I can link that to a cue instead of having to figure out my total times.    And might as well make an option on # of loops to infinity!

Macros are treated as automated keystrokes in Express consoles - basically it's like having someone who types fast and knows what you want type over your shoulder as you work. So if you're doing something that wouldn't be interrupted by data entry (running a fader, say) there's no issue. If you're pressing buttons it really depends what the macro is doing at the time. I wouldn't recommend putting macros in a cue list without careful consideration of the possible repercussions. A macro that runs a bump button shouldn't be an issue, unless the operator just happened to have pressed record...the Go button should work just fine, all the time. (Unless the macro has called up another cue, as in: macro= cue 5 enter + operator=a-b go, with operator expecting something other than cue 5 to execute...)

Some Express series consoles had, or maybe have, a subroutine function - I assume it was removed because it either could cause catastrophic operational situations in inexperienced hands, or was unstable. It could certainly f- ...er, annoy you if you weren't careful, and require a hard reset of the console to get out of unintended loops or lockups. It was, I believe, sub type 4 in its day, and I miss it still. I've heard rumours it's still in the 3.11 software for the Insight 2x consoles, but haven't confirmed that myself yet. I don't see it in the offline software. It may have been taken out around 3.0 or 3.01... But it had a loop functionality similar to what you're asking for.

Unfortunately ETC has stopped developing the Express software - so you may be stuck until you get that Ion you wanted. "Stuck with an Insight 3" - ha!

Quick question,

 I went to program for rehersals today. And when I executed the cue of 51, its stayed on page 2 on cue 51.5. So my question is, if I re program macro 22 with [Page] [1] [Enter] , will it go back to page 1, after the [OffSub69] [Enter]? Instead of me changing to page 1 and redoing all the faders with Inhib's?

It should do exactly that -

[page2][enter][(on)bump69][mwait x][offbump69][page 1][enter]

looks right to me, if I'm understanding you correctly.

Keep in mind that when you're moving subs from their home positions while the board is on page 2, those subs are on page 2 as well, and any subs active but carried from Page 1 before the macro will switch to page 2 if homed then.

By 'homed' I mean brought to 0 for most subs, and full for inhibitive subs.

Actually, [Page2][enter][(on)bump69][Page1][enter][Mwait x][offbump69] would be less "dangerous", as you'd not be in page 2 as long, but the functionality should remain. If I'm not mistaken, the page indicator on the top right of screen 2 flashes whenever all subs aren't on the current page as a heads up.

The blind/sub list will show you exactly which subs are on which page - but any subs active when the macro executes will flash their LEDs (fast or slow, depending on what they're doing) until homed. The page indicator will warn you, in red, that active subs are not homed, even if you're back in the normal page for them, and the sub list on screen 2 will have flashing green numbers, showing the page has been changed since these subs were activated.

So, I should program everything from page 1, into another page. I mainly use page 1 for all my programming of scene settings like groups, but in subs for the quickness of recall.

 In my new theory, (let me know if this will work out better, for Page 1 Macros or whatever) I can use a different page for my scene settings and Inhib's. Then, program all my effect subs in Page 1. And hopefully I won't see those flashing buttons anymore!

 Cause I did b/o the stage and bring the house lights back on, when "homed" them. Not good for live performances.

Side question - To make an step crossfade to the next step, how do I do this?? I put 1sec for up/down times Hi = FL, Lo = 0. And the there isn't any crossfading, Just a slower flash of the step.  I did it once before, but forgot how I did it, lol.

That's all i hope - going to program.... *squeezes forehead, saying this isn't going to be fun

I try to keep everything I'll need during a show on page 1 - If I know I won't need something, and will be short of subs (an infrequent occurance for me on the Insights) I'll set up a programming page.

You don't really need to home the subs - they'll keep working as needed while they're up, but you may find the blinking gets a little distracting until you're used to it. They're just flashing there as a warning.

Crossfading is a little unintuitive at first - the time column for a step tells the board when to execute the next step, the in time, dwell time, and out time tell the board how you'd like to see the step come in, stay, and go out. All pretty obvious - but for a crossfade, you should set the step time to be the sum of the in time and the dwell time, and make sure there's a fade time in the out column for that step...

As an example:

Step 1, Ch 12 thru 16 full, time 3, in 1, dwell 2, fade 1

Step 2, Ch 1 thru 11 full, time 4, in 2, dwell 2, fade 1

would fade 12 thru 16 up in 1, stay there for two, and start fading 1 thru 11 up in 2 while fading 12 thru 16 out in 1, would keep 1 thru 11 up for 2, then crossfade 1 thru 16 on 1 from zero to full or full to zero, depending on where they were.