Roadhog

www.highend.com/news_events/news/news_detail.asp?news_id=390

Hi tom/Brad/Mitch,
Any chance of a post about the new console and what it can and can't do?

Regards Cormac
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  • It is not my desire to start a debate, and I DO feel MIDI TC would be a useful feature of this console. It would open it up to more users. BUT I feel some incorrect assumptions are being made.

    1. The only use for LTC SMPTE is for syncing to an audio track. In fact more video, graphics and automation systems use SMPTE than audio devices. Remember what SMPTE stands for: Society of Motion, Picture & Television Engineers. Many automation systems installed in a variety of applications use SMTPE to generate daylight-clock time to control everything from houselights to projection screens, HVAC systems, window blinds, fountains etc. with NO AUDIO TRACK whatsoever. How many of these systems have MIDI interfaces? Very few if any. Try to find a MIDI port on a professional TV camera, VTR, CG, video switcher, Leightronix event manager, Crestron/AMX system, etc.

    Remember what MIDI stands for: Music Instrument Digital Interface. This is was originally developed for electronic instruments like sythesizers and drum machines to talk together and stay in sync via MIDI clock time. (MC) MIDI Timecode (MTC) was adopted later to assist with recording devices and other things to stay in sync, but was still driven primarily by the music, recording and theater industries. Since the lighting, scenery and motion control industries work closely with those hardware producers, it was easy to adopt this as interconnection standard particularly considering the size of the connectors on smaller components and infancy of LTC SMPTE timecode.

    2. While it is digital, MIDI timecode is not as accurate and can not keep up with information streams as well as SMPTE. MIDI TC can suffer from what is known as jitter or lag where the info can be jostled about in a sense. This is well documented problem and in many applications doesn't prove to be a problem. (I know there are plenty of people who have used it and NEVER had a problem.) However in the video world and other markets where absolute frame accuracy is needed, SMPTE has been increasingly adopted as the primary way to tie devices together. As for converting SMPTE to MIDI, well again every conversion creates lag and I have seen plenty of people frustrated with the Hog II systems lagging behind during complicated sequences. So yes there are cheap no-brainer conversion, but they don't always solve the problem.

    3. As with S-Video, the consumer grade DIN cables for MIDI do not offer locking connections. Again this is not as important to some markets as others, but it huge in other applications such as the touring and rental markets.

    4. Yes there are some advantages to MIDI when splitting and looping through (SMPTE via BNC offers loop throughs and is the standard in the video world.) it is easier and in many cases more reliable to run SMPTE long distances via XLR or better yet BNC Coax than stringing a MIDI cable even with the signal loss and crosstalk that might be present in certain SMTPE systems.

    The lighting industry is considerable smaller than the film, TV, recording and presentation industries and sometimes what we perceive as a standard way of doing things may not be the primary protocol of a larger community. HES is learning this with some of their digital lighting products. It's part of the growing pains of increasing integration and convergence between industries.
Reply
  • It is not my desire to start a debate, and I DO feel MIDI TC would be a useful feature of this console. It would open it up to more users. BUT I feel some incorrect assumptions are being made.

    1. The only use for LTC SMPTE is for syncing to an audio track. In fact more video, graphics and automation systems use SMPTE than audio devices. Remember what SMPTE stands for: Society of Motion, Picture & Television Engineers. Many automation systems installed in a variety of applications use SMTPE to generate daylight-clock time to control everything from houselights to projection screens, HVAC systems, window blinds, fountains etc. with NO AUDIO TRACK whatsoever. How many of these systems have MIDI interfaces? Very few if any. Try to find a MIDI port on a professional TV camera, VTR, CG, video switcher, Leightronix event manager, Crestron/AMX system, etc.

    Remember what MIDI stands for: Music Instrument Digital Interface. This is was originally developed for electronic instruments like sythesizers and drum machines to talk together and stay in sync via MIDI clock time. (MC) MIDI Timecode (MTC) was adopted later to assist with recording devices and other things to stay in sync, but was still driven primarily by the music, recording and theater industries. Since the lighting, scenery and motion control industries work closely with those hardware producers, it was easy to adopt this as interconnection standard particularly considering the size of the connectors on smaller components and infancy of LTC SMPTE timecode.

    2. While it is digital, MIDI timecode is not as accurate and can not keep up with information streams as well as SMPTE. MIDI TC can suffer from what is known as jitter or lag where the info can be jostled about in a sense. This is well documented problem and in many applications doesn't prove to be a problem. (I know there are plenty of people who have used it and NEVER had a problem.) However in the video world and other markets where absolute frame accuracy is needed, SMPTE has been increasingly adopted as the primary way to tie devices together. As for converting SMPTE to MIDI, well again every conversion creates lag and I have seen plenty of people frustrated with the Hog II systems lagging behind during complicated sequences. So yes there are cheap no-brainer conversion, but they don't always solve the problem.

    3. As with S-Video, the consumer grade DIN cables for MIDI do not offer locking connections. Again this is not as important to some markets as others, but it huge in other applications such as the touring and rental markets.

    4. Yes there are some advantages to MIDI when splitting and looping through (SMPTE via BNC offers loop throughs and is the standard in the video world.) it is easier and in many cases more reliable to run SMPTE long distances via XLR or better yet BNC Coax than stringing a MIDI cable even with the signal loss and crosstalk that might be present in certain SMTPE systems.

    The lighting industry is considerable smaller than the film, TV, recording and presentation industries and sometimes what we perceive as a standard way of doing things may not be the primary protocol of a larger community. HES is learning this with some of their digital lighting products. It's part of the growing pains of increasing integration and convergence between industries.
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