Roadhog

:poke: OUCH Joshua! Now my feelings ar hurt.

[quote=Woodj32177]
...There is no reason to be abusive...


Joshua, I will happily apologize to you if you took offense. :sad:

Perhaps you are not aware that I am simply showing my anger at the fact that a forum full of product users and complaining about a product that is wonderfully priced with reasonably proportionate features. :headbang:

[quote=Woodj32177]
Just because YOU don't see a need for midi in the roadhog...


I see the need for a console that brand new, has unlimited cue potential, thousands of palettes, and is UNDER $15,000.

I also see a need for a Midi Widget in the event I decide to use LTC, VTC, or MSC which I do use quite frequently.

[quote=Woodj32177]
Since it seems you have never needed midi in a desk...


How in the world would you conceive this from my statements? I never said I didn't need midi. I was tying to make a statement that if the market is flooded with cost effective Hog 3 solutions then Hog 3 will become the standard that Hog 2 was.

Between a Maxxyz, Vector, Vista, and GrandMA, I would pick an MA almost every single time. Between an MA and a Hog 3, I would pick a Hog 3 99.9% of the time. You see, my point is that I would use an MA if I couldn't get a Hog 3 which is good considering that in the industry, MA is considered by many to be the "New Standard" that Hog 2 was.

My whole point is this... The touring market determines what new products saturate the market. 90% of all tours with designed lighting packages (rented locally, or taken on the tour), are at the most 2 universes and never have more than about 15 to 20 movers and maybe a media server and some LEDs. This means a show that is literally 1 or 2 universes where timecode will never be an issue.

I Design tours like this, I program tours like this. It's a great way to make some extra cash on the side from time to time. I however, do not go out with tours. I do have to consider the board opp that does and the lighting company providing gear. Since I hate hog 2, I am stuck with GrandMAs most of the time. The MA is just too big for small shows like this but if it's all the operators know or if it's all the vendors have, I'm stuck.

I can make the tour managers happy by renting a pearl or hog 2 cheap or I can make the opps happy by renting a larger format console like the vista, vector, maxxyz, ma, or Hog 3 but if the market only gives me once choice, then I say, "let's change the market." We HES just did that with the Roadhog and it has nothing to do with Midi.

[quote=Woodj32177]
As for buying a PC system vs. a roadhog,
If you want to be on a tour and spend a half an hour plugging in 7 pieces of equipment vs just plugging in a desk you can go ahead and do that.


HUH???
I'm confused? Wasn't it clear that I was pointing out how nice it is to have everything built into one desk? Didn't my explanation show everyone that for the same price as all the gak, someone can have a self-contained desk with less points of failure?


Oh and here is a thought... I program shows. I especially program BIG shows, with Big rigs (8 to 10 universes). Granted I may only design a program 10 to 12 big shows a year, but it's a great deal of work and many of these shows (especially corporate shows) are loaded with timecode and midi events. For these, I use the $5,000 Midi/Timecode Processor and not the $1,000 Timcode Widget. So believe me, I do know a little something about timecode.


Oh and a good example of timecode in a small environment. I also program theme shows at amusement parks. This usually means I show up for a week and program and then the show runs for 2 months every night.
When I program, I sit on the $30,000 Hog 3 with 2 19" touchscreens and an expansion (or extra playback) wing(s).

When I fly home, the light tech uses a programming wing, mouse, keyboard, PC, Widget (or Super Widget), and a timecode widget because it's the "cheap" and effective way to run 2 months worth of shows.

Now I would have a new solution where I could have a Roadhog and timecode widget for a slight higher cost and my clients (and the poor busy light tech/opp) are happy with me because it's self contained.

Granted, like Hillary said above, recieving midi commands is a big deal. Of course it doesn't break the deal for me, but LDI is 6 months away and that gives Flying Pig plenty of windows to come up with a Midi Widget for the Roadhog.

:poke: OUCH Joshua! Now my feelings ar hurt.

[quote=Woodj32177]
...There is no reason to be abusive...


Joshua, I will happily apologize to you if you took offense. :sad:

Perhaps you are not aware that I am simply showing my anger at the fact that a forum full of product users and complaining about a product that is wonderfully priced with reasonably proportionate features. :headbang:

[quote=Woodj32177]
Just because YOU don't see a need for midi in the roadhog...


I see the need for a console that brand new, has unlimited cue potential, thousands of palettes, and is UNDER $15,000.

I also see a need for a Midi Widget in the event I decide to use LTC, VTC, or MSC which I do use quite frequently.

[quote=Woodj32177]
Since it seems you have never needed midi in a desk...


How in the world would you conceive this from my statements? I never said I didn't need midi. I was tying to make a statement that if the market is flooded with cost effective Hog 3 solutions then Hog 3 will become the standard that Hog 2 was.

Between a Maxxyz, Vector, Vista, and GrandMA, I would pick an MA almost every single time. Between an MA and a Hog 3, I would pick a Hog 3 99.9% of the time. You see, my point is that I would use an MA if I couldn't get a Hog 3 which is good considering that in the industry, MA is considered by many to be the "New Standard" that Hog 2 was.

My whole point is this... The touring market determines what new products saturate the market. 90% of all tours with designed lighting packages (rented locally, or taken on the tour), are at the most 2 universes and never have more than about 15 to 20 movers and maybe a media server and some LEDs. This means a show that is literally 1 or 2 universes where timecode will never be an issue.

I Design tours like this, I program tours like this. It's a great way to make some extra cash on the side from time to time. I however, do not go out with tours. I do have to consider the board opp that does and the lighting company providing gear. Since I hate hog 2, I am stuck with GrandMAs most of the time. The MA is just too big for small shows like this but if it's all the operators know or if it's all the vendors have, I'm stuck.

I can make the tour managers happy by renting a pearl or hog 2 cheap or I can make the opps happy by renting a larger format console like the vista, vector, maxxyz, ma, or Hog 3 but if the market only gives me once choice, then I say, "let's change the market." We HES just did that with the Roadhog and it has nothing to do with Midi.

[quote=Woodj32177]
As for buying a PC system vs. a roadhog,
If you want to be on a tour and spend a half an hour plugging in 7 pieces of equipment vs just plugging in a desk you can go ahead and do that.


HUH???
I'm confused? Wasn't it clear that I was pointing out how nice it is to have everything built into one desk? Didn't my explanation show everyone that for the same price as all the gak, someone can have a self-contained desk with less points of failure?


Oh and here is a thought... I program shows. I especially program BIG shows, with Big rigs (8 to 10 universes). Granted I may only design a program 10 to 12 big shows a year, but it's a great deal of work and many of these shows (especially corporate shows) are loaded with timecode and midi events. For these, I use the $5,000 Midi/Timecode Processor and not the $1,000 Timcode Widget. So believe me, I do know a little something about timecode.


Oh and a good example of timecode in a small environment. I also program theme shows at amusement parks. This usually means I show up for a week and program and then the show runs for 2 months every night.
When I program, I sit on the $30,000 Hog 3 with 2 19" touchscreens and an expansion (or extra playback) wing(s).

When I fly home, the light tech uses a programming wing, mouse, keyboard, PC, Widget (or Super Widget), and a timecode widget because it's the "cheap" and effective way to run 2 months worth of shows.

Now I would have a new solution where I could have a Roadhog and timecode widget for a slight higher cost and my clients (and the poor busy light tech/opp) are happy with me because it's self contained.

Granted, like Hillary said above, recieving midi commands is a big deal. Of course it doesn't break the deal for me, but LDI is 6 months away and that gives Flying Pig plenty of windows to come up with a Midi Widget for the Roadhog.