I modified the look onstage and then performed an update cue only. I then did a go to the next cue and again tried to update cue only from the info held over in the programmer and the Hog 3 refused to update. I had to release and reenter the info into the programmer to make it update. How do you update two consecutive cues cue-only without having to reselect everything?
[quote=amerson]Why is the simple command -- update -- not a good choice? a couple things i'll point out, right away:
Auto-Update is far, far more involved than the ETC "S4-Update" that you're used to, and very often it *is* a good choice.
it's this specific case, where you want the "no-longer-active" changes in your Programmer to be subsequently recommitted using the (State) option, that requires you to use Merge instead.
(and, in my opinion, it's not due to any concept or philosophy, but a UI quandary: the (State) option is not available in the Auto-Update dialog because toggling that option on would alter the collection of values for which Auto-Update needs to resolve record targets, and that would occur after the "checkbox tree" has already been populated and painted)
[quote=amerson]What is the technical difference in these three commands? Record is more or less "commit the changes in my Programmer to an explicit single or explicit collection of targets"
if when recording you specify an existing target, you'll be prompted to choose whether you want to Insert a new and differently-numbered target at the existing target's location, to "Merge" or combine the changes in the Programmer with the existing target's data, or Replace the existing target completely. a common choice to this question is to Merge, so the [Merge] key has been included as a shortcut for passing your intent to the recording functions so that you need not be prompted.
so, Merge essentially is just a well-thought-out Record.
[quote=amerson]What's the difference between updating and merging when you perform an S4-Update on an Obsession, it will default to updating the current cue. you can, of course, specify a different cue, or a submaster/group/or whatever. but in any case, you're limited to updating a single item / record target.
(in this sense, S4-Update is equivalent to Merge; you're not asked to Please Confirm just because Cue or Part Already Exists; S4-Update is a well-thought-out selective Record.)
the exception to S4-Update being limited to a single target is when you update a multi-part cue, without specifying which part to update. in other words, you can make changes that affect multiple parts, and S4-Update will take care of the rest; channels in P2 will automatically get updated into P2, channels in P8 will automatically get updated into P8. (of course, that's not how the mechanics of updating part cues work, but for this, it illustrates well)
Where an S4-Update can only operate on a single target which must be explicitly specified if not the current cue, Auto-Update can operate on any number of targets and will, automatically, inspect the changes in your Programmer and, value-by-value, determine the correct target for committing each individual change.
similar to how an S4-Update commits channel levels to their appropriate "source" parts, Auto-Update commits each parameter value to its appropriate "source" target. a single Auto-Update command can modify the current Cue on the Chosen Master's List, the current Cue on a different List on another Page, a Colour Pallette referenced by that current Cue on a different List on another Page, and an Intensity Pallette referenced by a Scene, all at the same time.
the manual does a much better job of describing this practice than do i. you'll notice the Auto-Update pages make frequent use of the term "merge". Auto-Update is a means of performing a "multi-operation Merge" or "multiple Merges by a single command".
if you're, say, changing cyc levels and carrying them through the next ten cues cue-only, when you step into each of those cues you're not saying "i've got these changes and i want you to now go look at every single thing that's contributing in any way to what's live on stage, and merge into whatever sources you may happen to find", no, you're saying "i want these changes exactly here, in this cue. all of them, right here.", and that's really more of a Merge than an Auto-Update. you have a target in mind, and that's the difference.
[quote=amerson]What's the difference between updating and merging, other than updating doesn't always work? now, for single-list shows, Auto-Update always resolves to the exact target that you would have specified had you been Manual-Merging instead. as such, it's quick and easy and i love it. but as soon as you start employing auxiliary / chase lists, the way in which you're expecting "Update" to work is just going to fall apart. is this maybe what you're seeing? what isn't working for you?
[quote=amerson]What happens when I update if a group is one of the options and I check it? Does that also misbehave like update with cues? consider as such: Auto-Update "polls" active sources of playback to determine who "owns" a parameter's live-on-stage value. as groups cannot contain parameter values, they cannot contribute to playback, and will never be registered as an Auto-Update candidate.
[quote=amerson]Why is the simple command -- update -- not a good choice? a couple things i'll point out, right away:
Auto-Update is far, far more involved than the ETC "S4-Update" that you're used to, and very often it *is* a good choice.
it's this specific case, where you want the "no-longer-active" changes in your Programmer to be subsequently recommitted using the (State) option, that requires you to use Merge instead.
(and, in my opinion, it's not due to any concept or philosophy, but a UI quandary: the (State) option is not available in the Auto-Update dialog because toggling that option on would alter the collection of values for which Auto-Update needs to resolve record targets, and that would occur after the "checkbox tree" has already been populated and painted)
[quote=amerson]What is the technical difference in these three commands? Record is more or less "commit the changes in my Programmer to an explicit single or explicit collection of targets"
if when recording you specify an existing target, you'll be prompted to choose whether you want to Insert a new and differently-numbered target at the existing target's location, to "Merge" or combine the changes in the Programmer with the existing target's data, or Replace the existing target completely. a common choice to this question is to Merge, so the [Merge] key has been included as a shortcut for passing your intent to the recording functions so that you need not be prompted.
so, Merge essentially is just a well-thought-out Record.
[quote=amerson]What's the difference between updating and merging when you perform an S4-Update on an Obsession, it will default to updating the current cue. you can, of course, specify a different cue, or a submaster/group/or whatever. but in any case, you're limited to updating a single item / record target.
(in this sense, S4-Update is equivalent to Merge; you're not asked to Please Confirm just because Cue or Part Already Exists; S4-Update is a well-thought-out selective Record.)
the exception to S4-Update being limited to a single target is when you update a multi-part cue, without specifying which part to update. in other words, you can make changes that affect multiple parts, and S4-Update will take care of the rest; channels in P2 will automatically get updated into P2, channels in P8 will automatically get updated into P8. (of course, that's not how the mechanics of updating part cues work, but for this, it illustrates well)
Where an S4-Update can only operate on a single target which must be explicitly specified if not the current cue, Auto-Update can operate on any number of targets and will, automatically, inspect the changes in your Programmer and, value-by-value, determine the correct target for committing each individual change.
similar to how an S4-Update commits channel levels to their appropriate "source" parts, Auto-Update commits each parameter value to its appropriate "source" target. a single Auto-Update command can modify the current Cue on the Chosen Master's List, the current Cue on a different List on another Page, a Colour Pallette referenced by that current Cue on a different List on another Page, and an Intensity Pallette referenced by a Scene, all at the same time.
the manual does a much better job of describing this practice than do i. you'll notice the Auto-Update pages make frequent use of the term "merge". Auto-Update is a means of performing a "multi-operation Merge" or "multiple Merges by a single command".
if you're, say, changing cyc levels and carrying them through the next ten cues cue-only, when you step into each of those cues you're not saying "i've got these changes and i want you to now go look at every single thing that's contributing in any way to what's live on stage, and merge into whatever sources you may happen to find", no, you're saying "i want these changes exactly here, in this cue. all of them, right here.", and that's really more of a Merge than an Auto-Update. you have a target in mind, and that's the difference.
[quote=amerson]What's the difference between updating and merging, other than updating doesn't always work? now, for single-list shows, Auto-Update always resolves to the exact target that you would have specified had you been Manual-Merging instead. as such, it's quick and easy and i love it. but as soon as you start employing auxiliary / chase lists, the way in which you're expecting "Update" to work is just going to fall apart. is this maybe what you're seeing? what isn't working for you?
[quote=amerson]What happens when I update if a group is one of the options and I check it? Does that also misbehave like update with cues? consider as such: Auto-Update "polls" active sources of playback to determine who "owns" a parameter's live-on-stage value. as groups cannot contain parameter values, they cannot contribute to playback, and will never be registered as an Auto-Update candidate.
