Sensor 3/ETC Net 3 with dmx controlled fluorecent fixtures.

Hello Ted,

What exactly keeps breaking/what functionality are you loosing; on the sensor module?

1) Fluorescent ballasts are inductive loads, this does slightly de-rate the relay.

However, assuming 54w T5 lamps, your max (real) power draw = 6x(54x4) = 1296w. Well within the limit.

2) No, this only applies to dimming. See below.

3) The firing mode "Fluorescent" alters at which point in the AC wave form the SCR is activated. This is to improve the dimming curve achieved with most dimmable fluorescent ballasts.

Marcus

Hello Ted,

What exactly keeps breaking/what functionality are you loosing; on the sensor module?

1) Fluorescent ballasts are inductive loads, this does slightly de-rate the relay.

However, assuming 54w T5 lamps, your max (real) power draw = 6x(54x4) = 1296w. Well within the limit.

2) No, this only applies to dimming. See below.

3) The firing mode "Fluorescent" alters at which point in the AC wave form the SCR is activated. This is to improve the dimming curve achieved with most dimmable fluorescent ballasts.

Marcus

Thanks for the answers.

On my first question, our main problem is that the circuits which has the LDDE fixtures on it, the circuit keeps breaking in our sensor 3 rack all other circuits are fine. And we dont understand why those circuits with the LDDE fixtures are the only ones to fail.

Ted

Hi Ted - Which Theatre is this? (Kiel?) 

At what point are the Circuits tripping? When the circuits get turned on? When they are brought to full? 

Do these modules have RCD (FI) on them? 

Is the CEM3 giving an error? What Error is coming?

It's in Grieghallen (Bergen, Norway)

Not sure when the circuit breaks, since we're in an early stage of an opera, so the lamps have mostly been hung and been idle while connected. I havent seen any error message, i have just flipped the circuit for the channel back on, then it has been on for awhile before they break again.

I have now rerouted 3 of 4 courses to a permanent 16a 230v outside of the rack, and the plan is to do it with the 4th aswell. But it would still be interesting to know what causes it as a future referance.

Ted

Hi Ted , 

its best to read the error message on the CEM3 Processor if it says RCD Tripped or CB Tripped. That combined with the date/times of the tripping could help troubleshoot the issue. 

It could be an issue that if the CBs are tripping when the rack gets powered and the Modules are set to "Always On" that the 6x LDDE Ballasts are too many being turned on at the same time. Each Ballast puts a certain amount of more stress on the circuit when it first turns on. Manufacturers of such ballasts should be able to tell you how many ballasts can be turned on at the same time for specific circuit breakers. Check your relay module for which rating CB is there and give this information to LDDE and ask them how many fixtures can be combined kn that type of CB. 

The fuse for 4th channel that is not rerouted just blew, with no error msg on the CEM3 Processor.

I tried to upload some photos, but just got an error message...

Ted

Hi Ted,

when you say "fuse" do you mean the circuit breaker is tripped, or has a real fuse blown? In the module? Or where?

I think at this point you need to contact the ETC dealer that installed thís system, because there are many elements

that could be related to another. You can also contact ETC UK Monday if you are not sure who the ETC Dealer is:

For technical support in Europe, please call (+44) 20 8896 1000, or

You should gather all this Information that was written in this forum and have it ready on the telephone.

Or you can use the contact Formular on our Website and make an official Service Request:

Sorry.

The circuit breaker for one of the channels in the rack has broken, which is the circuit for our 6x LDDE spectra fixtures. It's only that circuit that has broken on our rack. The rest is fine.

Ted

Hi Ted,

as said before - please contact the manufacturer of the LDDE and ask them about how many fixtures can be powered at the same time for the type of circuit breakers you have installed on your Relay Modules.

LED luminaires containing electronic controllers consume large currents when energised:

“Inrush current” and leak some current to safety earth: “Leakage current” These currents

limit the numbers of luminaires that may be operated on common electrical supplies.

 

Hello Ted,

Could you let us know the exact model of sensor module used. If you are based in Europe then the TR15AF is not a suitable module.

Are there any additional letters or numbers on the label on the right hand side?

Marcus

I will have a chat with them. It's not LED btw, it's conventional T5 light bulbs.

ETR15AFR is the name of the modules used in our racks.

Hi Superted,

Do you also work for the theater? Do you know if these Sensor Racks have Dimmer Feedback / Advanced Features,

and if those are enabled? This would allow you to see if a "Circuit Trip" or "RCD Trip" Error in the display of the CEM3 processor

is happening when the circuit breaker trips. If the circuit breakers are tripping, and there is no error message in the CEM3 display, then

most likely these racks were not equipped with Advanced Features, and so its not as easy to tell why the Circuit Breakers are tripping.

I would recommend contacting the ETC Dealer that installed the racks and have them help locate where the problem could be.  

ETR15AFR is suitable for use in Europe

E = Europe

TR = ThruRelay

15 = 15amps rated

AF = Advanced features

R = RCD

So as this is an RCD module, and you are using electronic ballasts. Then I expect that high earth leakage current is the cause of the nuisance tripping.

My recommendation would be to reduce the number of fixtures per circuit.

A suitably skilled and trained electrician should be able to measure the leakage current. Or, as Corey suggested, contacting the manufacturer - However in my experience you'll find that they are unable to tell you!

Marcus

The vast majority of fluorescent ballasts have a very high leakage current, so it is very likely that you are seeing an RCD trip.

This is also the case for a lot of moving light and LED equipment.
With modern high-efficacy luminaires you will usually reach the RCD leakage current limit long before reaching the maximum current/power rating.

A 30mA RCD must trip when leakage is somewhere between 15mA and 30mA, so you need to stay below half the RCD rating to avoid unwanted tripping.

To resolve this, you'll need to put fewer of these fixtures on each circuit. Perhaps a maximum of 4 instead of the current 6?

For exact numbers you'd need to contact the fixture manufacturer.
As Marcus said, very few manufacturers have their leakage figures easily available.