Clearing / "un-touching" Parameters

Hi Richard -

Select the channel(s) you want to affect and use the C/ALT key and the FOCUS/COLOR/BEAM keys to clear the "changed" flag (the purple cell) for entire categories, or C/ALT and the wheel keys to clear changed for specific parameters, or use the softkeys under "Devices" for "Set Changed" and "Clear Changed" to toggle the state of attributes without having to touch the encoders.

I hope this helps -

Thanks-

Sarah 

Richard J:

-on a slightly related note, does anyone know if it's possible to exit the show (having made a right mess of it) without saving ?

File>Open>(location)>show.asc - instead of pressing [Modify], press the right arrow and you'll see a list of show.001 to show.009 - those are the old versions of your show from the last 10 times you saved. The .asc is the last save you did, .001 the one before that etc.

So you can revert to older versions if it all goes to pot!

Please note that when you leave the Congo application, data isn't saved to original play file. It is stored in a temporary file to be able to restore the last status when you start again.

If you haven't saved the play manually (in Browser/Save) before you exit, the original file is still untouched. You can then still load the original show file after starting Congo again.

Anders

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions,

 I figured out the 'load previous show' thing in bed last night, that will work just fine.

I'll try the 'untouching' when I can get my paws on the desk this morning.

 Thanks again

 Richard

Hmmm...

 using 'c/alt' with the paramaters doesn't quite do what I want it to do. It removes the change flags but holds the value of the parameters on the output, I can get rid of them by fading them to zero or homing them before using the c/alt + parameter method but this is not the same thing.

-a value of 0 is not the same as no value. -and, if I have a large number of different fixtures it's a real pain to do.

Surely there must be a 'knockout' function where I select the fixtures I want rid of and hit a single button which knocks them out or releases them ?

Am I having problems with the basic philosophy of 'where am I working' when I dial up a fixture (ie. 'Live' v's 'Programmer' v's 'Active Field') ? or is this one for the future developement / feature request pile ?

I'm sorry if this sounds really obtuse (and fully accept that this may be a problem with my logic -as there are a number of related issues I have ) but it is important.

 Thanks again for your help and patience

Richard

I'm confused as to what you mean now.
What end result are you trying to achieve?

When you remove the change flag on a parameter, it means that the parameter will not be recorded when you hit (#) [Record] [Record].
It will have no effect on the current parameter values - how would Congo know which preset(s) you are intending to execute before this one?

Because parameters are LTP and tracking, if a parameter is not recorded it will remain whereever it was last positioned when you run the sequence/show.

Edit: Just figured out what you mean!

You have recorded a preset, and then decided that you want to erase the parameter value from that preset.

The main way of doing this is to use the Attribute Editor:

• Hit [Preset] to get the preset. (Alternatively, type the preset #, hold [Modify] and hit [Preset] to jump straight there)
  
• Scroll down to the preset you want to change.
• Move the gold focus to the 'Parameters' cell for the preset.
• Hit [Modify]
• Select the parameter cell(s) you want to delete.
• Hit [Delete]
• [Modify] to confirm

You can edit the attributes here as well - either by Palette (default), or in Absolute values.
[Setup] > Attribute settings > Attribute Editor Default to change between these two edit modes.

However, to edit attributes in a sequence, my favourite is the track list:

• Select the channels you want to change - max of about 24 IIRC
  
• Hit [Track] to get the tracklist for the sequence in the Main Playback.
  
• Hold [Format] and press [Focus], [Color], [Beam] or a wheel key.
• You get a lovely list of the attributes as they change throughout the show and can edit them as required.
• Note that at present you cannot erase attributes here - you can only change them.
  

You can also use the Unblock Wizard on a sequence, which will erase any repeated values back to the minimum required to do the show:

• Open the Sequence List you want to edit
• Hit [Wizard]
• Choose steps to unblock between
  
• [Modify]

I think your confusion is that you are thinking of the Hog Editor. The Live tab is not the same thing!
The important thing to remember is this:

There is no Live Editor, so you can't clear it.

Seriously - that concept does not exist in Congo.

• The Live tab always displays what is actually happening Live.
• The Live Attributes tab shows the current values of all attributes.
• If an attribute has a purple background (change flag set), it gets recorded.
• In an attribute does not (change flag cleared), then it does NOT get recorded.

(There are exceptions to this - you can force it to record all attributes, or none if you wish)

You can set or clear the purple change flag for the selected channels by using the Moving Light Display: Device>Set Changed/Clear Changed softkeys, or simply clear the flags by holding [C/Alt] and pressing the wheel key or F,C,B button.

Think of the 'purple' as being 'this is in my Hog-style editor'

I'll show a concrete example:

(This assumes that attribute recording is set to Automatic, which is the default setting) 

• Starting from all change flags clear - [Refresh] main playback, record something or [C/Alt] & [Focus][Color][Beam]
  
• I change the Pan and Tilt attributes on channels 1-6.
• These attributes turn purple.
  
• I change all the colours as well.
• These also turn purple.
  
• I then decide that I don't actually want to record the Focus for channels 4-6.
  
• I select channels 4-6, hold [C/Alt] and press [Focus]
• The purple around F on ch 4-6 is removed in Live, and the purple is removed from the Focus attributes in the Live Attributes tab.
• I hit [Record], check that "Record All Attributes" is not ticked, [Record]
• I've now recorded a preset containing the following:
• All intensities as they were at the moment of recording.
• Pan & Tilt for channels 1-3
• Colour attributes for channels 1-6
• All change flags have now been cleared because I've recorded, so I start making the next look.
  

This is very quick, and allows a great deal of flexibility in choosing which attributes should and shouldn't be recorded.

However, if you have already recorded the preset and want to go back and erase the data, then you have to use the Attribute Editor.
If it's a simple case of unblocking (the same value has been recorded lots of times), then there is a wizard to help you.

Remember that the Attribute Editor is a spreadsheet - you can select lots of cells at the same time using [Column], [Select], and the arrow keys.

One of the features of Congo is that intensities don't track, while attributes do.
Another feature is that the only difference between a moving light and a generic, is that the generic doesn't have any attributes.

Don't you think it would be incredibly confusing if moving light intensities tracked, while generics didn't?

To be honest, I think you need to get some formal training on the console - you're trying to apply things you know about the Hog directly to Congo, and the two consoles operate in different ways.
While there are a lot of similar features and capabilities, they are acheived differently.

We run monthly training sessions at our London office - click here for details.

Richard:

• The Live tab always displays what is actually happening Live.
• The Live Attributes tab shows the current values of all attributes

Ok, that's fine but 'where' is this information coming from ? I dial it up on the channel controller or parameter wheels and it goes live straight away ? is that what's happening ? -then fine, but if I can clear the intensites of the lamps I've altered, why not Paramaters ? -I suppose 'Refresh' is the answer

Richard:

Think of the 'purple' as being 'this is in my Hog-style editor'

Not quite because if I clear the Programmer on a Hog, all information in the programmer is discarded and the fixtures go back to their previous state.

Richard:

• I then decide that I don't actually want to record the Focus for channels 4-6.
  
• I select channels 4-6, hold [C/Alt] and press [Focus]
• The purple around F on ch 4-6 is removed in Live, and the purple is removed from the Focus attributes in the Live Attributes tab.

While the purple change flag may have gone, the lamps still physically reside where you have positioned them...

Ah... I think the penny's begining to drop, by changing their focus settings Live, you've overwritten their previous values (and as there's no 'undo' you're stuck with them where they are). I know they won't be recorded in the Preset your recording but this eems to be a very confusing way of working (and I'm not usually easily confused).

Philosophically, what is the advantage of this approach rather than the editor model ?

While I appreciate that the attribute editor may be a very powerful and detailed way to edit presets, there should also be a quicker and easier way to remove all traces of a fixture from a preset. 

As for tracking, I'd actually prefer an option that allowed the desk to be fully tracking. I think the distinction between intensities and other parameters is an artificial one.

I've actually already had some formal training on the desk, but have only just got my hands on one to drill down into its operation in detail. Some more training is on the cards in the not-too-distant future and I'll save my queries for then. 

I agree that my difficulties stem from coming from using desks which operate on a different logic (one which I've become particularly comfortable with) and the move to Congo is something of a Paradigm shift. I just wondered whether I was missing a simple trick in not being able to achieve the desired effect, it seems the prognosis is a little more serious.

Thanks again for your help and your patience.

Richard

Yes, resetting attributes back to the value given in Main Playback is a "Refresh" function.

Select the channels, hold [Refresh] & hit wheelkey/[Focus]/[Color]/[Beam]

(Now checked - this is right!)

The reason for the philisophical difference is mostly "This is the way Pronto did it".
It also makes it easier to create partially blocking cues - select channels, hold the {Set Changed} softkey and press the attributes you want to block.

There are some changes to attribute control coming in the next release which should make everybody's life easier - I'm really loving 4.3, but there is a lot more testing to do before we can release it.

With regards to the tracking - Congo simply isn't a fully tracking desk. It's just not part of the design.
The "Movefade" option for the crossfade brings it closer to tracking, but there is no difference between "Unrecorded" and "Intensity=0" so it's not true tracking - it's helpful for certain effects, but you wouldn't record a whole show that way.

And you are more than welcome - keep the questions coming, and feel free to call or email me direct if you need help!
 

Hi,

If you need to remove parameter data from an already recorded preset, as has been said, you can do it in the preset attribute editor. Open it with # PRESET & ATTRIBUTE. If you wish to delete all parameters of a device, focus the "Device" cell of the device you wish to delete all parameters from and press Delete (and confirm with Modify).
When moving in the spreadsheets, don't forget the SpeedScroll function, hold up/down arrow and use the level wheel (or left/right arrow for horizontal movement).

That's one way to get rid of the parameter data. If you wish to delete both the parameter data and intensity, you can do both in the Preset list. Open Preset list for the preset you want with # MODIFY & PRESET. Select the light(s), focus the Attributes cell and press Delete (and confirm with Modify). Now you deleted all attributes for the selected channel(s). Then you just pull the intensity level to 0% and use Update to update the changes.

Congo and Hog are different, as you've found out. I've always liked in Congo that you can open the preset attribute editor (# PRESET & ATTRIBUTE), make the changes and close the tab. In Hog to edit the attributes of a cue, it's necesary to load it to the programmer and make the changes, update and clear.

The closed to Hogs Clear you'll find on the Congo is Refresh. It will refresh the attributes to the levels set in the Main Playback.

Oskar 

Regarding Congo philosophy....

Consoles have to have a philosophy to start from. The "Hog" style with Programmer editor is one way - but it is not the only way.

Think of it this way - lights are always somewhere. Even conventionals are somewhere - just sometimes they are at zero. Moving lights are the same - they are always at some setting - whether that is a default or "home" value or somewhere else.

In Congo, we have no "Programmer". A Programmer is useful for seeing what's selected and what will be stored, but it does not always give you full view of what will be played back. (You can record an inserted cue, for example, but what's in the programmer won't necessarily be what gets played back due to levels tracking in from other cues - this can be problematic, especially when editing.)

Congo uses a very simple philosophy - Intensity is Highest-Takes-Precedence and other parameters are Last-Takes-Precedence. While you can choose other methods, as Richard has described, the default behavior of Congo is to record all intensities and only parameters that you have 'touched" or changed - the ones in purple. If a parameter is not purple it does not get recorded (therefore a parameter doesn't have to be in its default state to be kept from the record, it just has to be "unchanged"). Parameters don't move unless they are told to do so either manually or by playing something back.

Hog programmers get used to having the fixtures return to the home position when clearing the Programmer (or when knocking out a fixture). If you come from a different tradition, having lights moving around for <editorial comment> no good reason </editorial comment> can be equally disturbing. The basic answer to why Congo does not use a Programmer is simply because we chose not to do so - we chose a different philosophy.

We are adding some features in that will give you faster access to "knockout" style functionality, however the philosophy of the console will not change. It may take some getting used to, but you can always home a fixture or parameter manually if you prefer or if you need to get that fixture/parameter back to the default state. Simply select the channel(s) and press HOME ATTRIB twice in rapid succession to home the whole fixture, or use HOME ATTRIB and the FOCUS/COLOR/BEAM keys to home a whole category, or use HOME ATTRIB and the wheel keys to home a specific parameter.

I hope this helps to explain the differences a bit and gets you the function that you are looking for. If not, please feel free to contact me.

Thanks -

Sarah 

Hi Richard

I've followed this thread all along, and since I'm responsible for documentation you are giving me the feeling there should be a chapter with the title

 "Coming to Congo from Hog"

You can rest assured everything in Congo is there for a reason, just like in the Hog. And if you don't know the reason it's pretty much a mystery in any console.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can see the main differences causing confusion are

 Where are you programming?
- In our philosphy there is no programmer. Instead you are always working in one of the playbacks, or blind. This is always indicated in the Channel Control box at the bottom of all screens. Yellow means you are live. This also means there is no release or knock-out equal to the Hog. Instead there is Home, Clear unchanged and Refresh, and together they should offer you the same flexibility and maybe some advantages.

What is recorded?
- In our philosophy intensities are HTP and stored in every look, while attributes are tracking and stored when flagged as changed, or by force. Also, you record everything you see in Live (WYSIWYG) or a selection (with Masking and tagging possibilities). The philosophical difference between intensities and attributes can be very useful. Brad Schiller mentions this in his book The Automated Lighting Programmers Handbook - but at the end of the day it's just a matter of how you approach it.

What is played back from where?
- Again, there is a difference between Intensities (HTP) and attributes (LTP). There is no complex ownership structure. HTP is HTP and LTP is LTP. Dynamics can be triggered by any playback fader and can be faded in or out with that fader. They can also be stopped or controlled from the Live Dynamic Tab or with another fader. Again it's mostly a matter of how you decide to apply it.

I would greatly appreciate what else you would have liked to have read in a chapter like that before you started your journey.
:-)

All best
Ulf

Hi Ulf,

 Good to hear from you. Perhaps it would be a good idea (and helpful for bears of little brain like me!) for a 'Translation' section which lays out the differences and similarities between the Congo and the Hog (and, presumably, other consoles too).

The main issue for me is / was that the Congo applies its LTP fairly strictly and, even if you clear the playback, you have to 'refresh' the LTP parameters to their previous settings.  With the Hog, it kind of does this automatically for you when you blind or clear the programmer (masking off the changes you've made and outputing their prior values). 'Home Attributes' isn't quite the same and Refresh only seems to refresh to previous values in the playback, not those in Subs.

It seems to be one of things you understand or you don't -saying 'there's no programmer' doesn't explain what's going on.

As you say, it's never really expained 'where' you are working or how the heirarchy of the desk works -this would really help. For example, I'm still at a loss to understand why the entire desk blacks out when I double-hit 'c/alt'+'ch/ID' !? I can understand this clearing the playback, but killing the Subs too ? -I mean, why would I ever want to do this ?

I don't proclaim to be an expert on all things Hog but I'd be happy to talk to you about the conceptual difficulties I've been having (Surely it's not just me... is it ?)

Best Regards

Richard