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    cjLights
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Understanding XYZ focus

Working in 3.1 for the first time on a live production (yay!) and I'm trying to understand xyz focus better.

So I recorded all of my focus palettes in XYZ format, and recorded most of my cues the same way. I had a group of movers midstage that performers regularly crossed as I was following with those movers. Things got weird with the path the movers took, but I'll save that for another post.

What I'm trying to understand is, when i'm in pan/tilt format, everything saves with those pan/tilt values... but it was my understanding that when in XYZ format, the only thing being recorded was the XYZ focus (which is calculated by the Augment3D engine, right?) Because if I move the position of my light (in A3D and real life) after I've recorded XYZ data.... the light continues to point at the saved XYZ data (which is now a different pan/tilt)

My question is, how is the XYZ data saved differently when flip is used? Because when I used it, it accurately saved the flipped data but still displayed the XYZ as the same. Is there some hidden attribute that tells A3D which flipped version to use?

I ask because, if I had the option to control that "flip" data, then I could theoretically set my focus points to make sure no unintentional flips happened the way I would when making focus palettes with pan/tilt. 'And while I guess I can still do it, I'm not sure how to confirm that without seeing that hidden "secret" attribute.

If my assumptions are correct above I would love to right up a feature request to see that "flip/orientation" data, or maybe my assumptions are wrong and I hope they can be corrected.

  • +1

    Hi cjLights,

    When storing in XYZ Format we still keep track of Pan/Tilt because as you noticed, we need to know the orientation (Pan/Tilt) so the Flip function works as you note.  If you watch the Pan/Tilt values will be grey, but still updating as you change XYZ values.  Also, this supports some backwards compatibility when taking the showfile back down to pre-3.0.0.

    As far as your "feature request" goes it is already there - as in the Pan/Tilt data is present and updates when using Flip.

    For the record the XYZ Focus and Pan/Tilt Focus data are calculated by Eos - Augment3d does not need to be running.

    You are correct about XYZ Format striving to hit the same XYZ position regardless of where the fixture is moved - unlike Pan/Tilt.

    - - -

    Regarding the "weird" path the movers took, you may have encountered a combination of two known things:

    1. Fixture may have exceeded Pan/Tilt limits and flipped along the intended XYZ Path
    2. XYZ fades can at times take paths unintended depending on the XYZ coordinates.
      1. One ticket for future development is the ability to define Focus Paths similar in concept to Color Fade Paths.
    3. XYZ position calculations, as noted by using Flip, can result in up to 4 fixture Pan/Tilt values, depending on the combination in your cue fade this can also result in "weird" paths.
    4. You can add Delays or Discrete Timings to X, Y, and Z Focus just like Pan and Tilt to modify the path as well.

    This support article also addresses some of the above: Movinglights not consistent with XYZ Focus positions - Electronic Theatre Controls Inc

  • 0 in reply to Seth Starr

    Seth, Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. If you read my other post ("A3D pan/tilt bug?") you'll see why I didn't always trust that pan/tilt data, but knowing what I know now I can still use the pan/tilt as I did before... I just have to do some more work. 

    And yes, those points all made sense for the weird paths.

    When fading in a cue from one XYZ data to another, is the console fading from one xyz to another and figuring out the pan/tilt in real time; or calculating the start/end point, converting, and fading via pan/tilt? If it's the latter, I guess my request would be to have an option on a cue level to "Move with no flips (along the path)" or in essence, figure out whatever flipped version of the xyz focus doesn't require any flips along the path and use that, regardless of which pan/tilt flip is saved in the cue. This would only be if the cue has an xyz focus saved.

    I'm sure that's harder than it sounds, but could be a stop gap until Focus Paths make their way.

    Thanks for the quick reply and the info!

  • 0 in reply to cjLights

    when fading a channel's focus values the console decides which method to use by looking at the target cue. if the channel is stored in XYZ format in the target cue then you get a crossfade in XYZ world (usually resulting in a straight line).

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