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    tryggve
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CMY vs. Hue/Sat in 1.3 (VL1000AS)

Eager to look at all the goodies (auto-block-clean-up, more label space, etc…) I updated our Eos installation to ver. 1.3 last night, after the last show. Two different shows, nearly every night. I’ve programmed one, my colleague (let's call her Vibeke) the other.

I’m an old fashioned, grumpy, middle-aged man who think that +5% of cyan gives as much meaning as dangling your finger in a color circle, while Vibeke is kind of broadminded, modern and progressive.

I must admit that I haven’t thought much of what way I saved my color-information, but by different working styles we got a little different first meeting with the 1.3. Most of the color information in my show was (by accident or lack of knowledge) saved as CMY-values, but Vibeke’s show had mostly Hue/Sat values.

I don’t know if anyone out there is familiar with the VariLite 1000AS. It’s a moving profile with shutters, and something VariLite probably would call CMY. I would rather call it a moving profile with shutters and some color-options… It’s really bad on the colors. (Try putting magenta to 50% and adjusting the lamp... No way.) But we happen to have nine of them.

In Eos ver. 1.3 someone have worked with the fixtures. And I understand why, and I can see how nice it would be in a perfect world, how versatile everything would be, - but VL1000 colormix is far from perfect. So in eos 1.3; if you “home” a VL1000, you get cyan at 0°, magenta at 15°and yellow at 35°. And its reading all other color information saved as Hue/Sat as bad as that. (CMY=0° gives Hue at 199 and Sat at 12).

So tonight, my show (An-Magritt) was still a rather sad Lee201-show with a little bit of optimistic spring-green in selected scenes, while Vibeke’s Peter Pan tonight had a heavy rose bedroom (kind of “damp”…), and Captain Hooks ship was sailing on a rather Lavender sea, while Peter Pan had a deep-purple-new-born skin with his well known grey trousers...

I don’t know if I’m extremely bad to adjust lamps, if VL has a little optimistic photometrics or if somebody just have made a mistake, but your updates really keeps me on my toes.  ;-)

 

-and I still think eos is a great console !!

tryggve


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  • Good morning Tryggve.  Ah, we have sort of done it to you again, haven't we.      I'm sorry --- but you are completely correct.... someone (and that would be our library guys) did work with the VL1K between 1.2 and 1.3.

     So, have you noticed that when you have a channel selected and are working with the color picker, sometimes you will see a black line in the color picker and sometimes you won't?  If you see the black line, this means two things.... first, the fixture has been through a full color calibration and using the color picker or the gel picker should be very accurate (if not, we'd like to know asap).  Also, then, the fixture cannot actually get to any color outside that black line. 

     If you don't see the black line, that means that the fixture has not yet been calibrated.  The library is very, very large and we are working our way through each and every fixture.  The VL1Ks were calibrated in the 1.3 release.

     Ok, next thing.  We store your color data in whatever way you mixed it.  So, if you mix your color with the CMY/RGB encoders, we store the data as CMY or RGB data.  If you mix in the color picker or the HSB encoders, or use the gel picker, we store the data as HSB.   The way the data is stored is the way we actually fade as well.  The advantage of an HSB fade is that you avoid going through the icky dark green/black color that you can often see on a native CMY fade.   To that end, on or before 1.4, we will add a tool that lets you toggle between CMY/RGB or HSB settings.  If you look in the table views when you are mixing color, if you are using HSB, you will see the HSB data in red.  The CMY data will change (in grey) as you adjust your color.  The reverse is true if you are working in CMY/RGB.  

     So, to make a long story short .... because the VL1K AS was color calibrated in 1.3, if you have color data stored in HSB from a 1.2 show file, that color data may need to be adjusted.  I'm not sure there is any way around that, but we are discussing it even as we speak. 

     Also, sounds like the light is trying to home to 3200 degrees.  Will get that addressed asap.  

     I hope this helps.  

    Anne 

  • in reply to Anne Valentino

    Anne Valentino said:
    Ok, next thing.  We store your color data in whatever way you mixed it.  So, if you mix your color with the CMY/RGB encoders, we store the data as CMY or RGB data.  If you mix in the color picker or the HSB encoders, or use the gel picker, we store the data as HSB.   The way the data is stored is the way we actually fade as well.  The advantage of an HSB fade is that you avoid going through the icky dark green/black color that you can often see on a native CMY fade.   To that end, on or before 1.4, we will add a tool that lets you toggle between CMY/RGB or HSB settings.  If you look in the table views when you are mixing color, if you are using HSB, you will see the HSB data in red.  The CMY data will change (in grey) as you adjust your color.  The reverse is true if you are working in CMY/RGB.

    Hi Anne

    Has this feature been implemented?  Looking for it today and couldn't find it on the console.  If not, what is the best way you would suggest to achieve this?  At the moment it's looking like re-recording the pallet in question, or entering a value on either CM or Y

    Cheers - BFJ



    [edited by: BrentFJ at 1:08 AM (GMT -6) on Thu, Feb 5 2009]
  • in reply to BrentFJ

    Brent, the HS/CMY toggle is actually part of 1.5 - it slipped out of the 1.4x releases for a number of reasons.  But, it'll be here in March.   The best work around right now is is to select a tile from the "grey" settings (for example, if HSB data, select a cyan tile, set the value to the same as it currently is.  This will switch the data to CMY.   Or you can just nudge an encoder gently.  That is enough to swap the data type while leaving the setting the same.

    a

     

  • in reply to Anne Valentino

    Recently we were afraid we were losing data when it was stored in HSB, so when storing the new color palette I made a macro that was "cyan @ +00001" so it didn't read, but would nudge it into the CYM.  I don't know if we lost the data or I just typed really poorly, but we were playing it safe.

     

    Jay

  • in reply to Jay

    I found from the blind pallet display, if you use the syntax [chan cyan (value that is grayed out) enter] it would make the pallet CMY.  to change back to HSB [chan hue (greyed out value) enter] with no data loss

    Cheers - BFJ

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