Grouping on Effects

Hey there,

I was playing around with the effects engine ´cause I´m not very confident with it. Most of the time I get what I need in the end but usually it takes a lot of time playing try and error...

 

This time I wanted to build a specific tilt-effect that gives a wave to 5 MovingHeads in one line. It looked fine when starting with the first Spot in line just using the "can can" from library.

But I wanted it to start in the middle, so that No3 moves first 2 & 4 for should start next and then 1 & 5. Therfore I made a group in that order: 3+2+4+1+5 and was very surprised that the effect started with 5. This went better when I changed the order to: 1+5+2+4+3. Have no idea why that is so!?

But still I wasn´t able to let 2&4 / 1&5 start simultaneously what makes sense ´cause I had trail on 10%. I hoped that with grouping I could tell them wich channels should move together but couldn´t define it exactly.

When I said "3" for grouping in the effect it didn´t make any difference to "spread", same result when I tried it with 3 groups (Group1: Ch.3, Group2: Ch. 2&4, Group3: Ch. 1&5) when selecting the channels for the effect in live.

So; is it possible to tell the console that some channels I want to be treated as one just for this specific effect? So that the trail can be used for groups not channels?

 

In the end I got what I wanted by recording a sequence of 3 follow-cues so that one and the same effect was brought up on the right fixtures with the right delay but I was wondering if it would be possible to do something like that very quick within one effect.

Happy about any suggestions...

Parents
  • Hi Paule

    You want sub-grouping which didn't make it 2.0 but will be in the release after that. With Sub grouping you'll be able to group channels together to act as a single channel.

    So for your example you'll say, 3 + (2+4) + (1+5) and the channels within the brackets will be classed as a single channel, setting the grouping of the effect to 3 will then work.

    The workaround at the moment for relative effects because we don't have sub-grouping is to patch a dummy channel, for example 99. Again use a grouping of 3 in the effect but enter the channels in order, 3 + 2 + 1 + 99 (dummy) + 4 + 5.

    This may help with your playtime.

    Nick

  • Hey Nick,

    that´s exactly what I was looking for and it´s very nice to hear that it´s already on the way.

    I tried to trick the console with a dummy as you mentioned and was almost happy ´cause it worked fine but then I noticed that it´s fine when trail is spread (don´t know if it´s the right term in my german it says "gleich verteilt", so maybe "even"?) but as soon as I give another value for that I have the trail between the groups AND within the groups. I´d like to have it between groups only.

    Do I miss something or isn´t that possible?

    Besides I have to thank you teaching me how to count right for this grouping stuff. I counted like I would do it with Palettes and an absolute effect but grouping in the effects is working like offset, right?

  • Hi Paule

    I think what you're looking for is the grouping set to 1 and then adjust the trail ('Even' is the normal setting) but this isn't going to work nicely until you have sub-grouping, sorry. There are workarounds with effects but it isn't nice and I'd use another cuelist.

    If you want ugly effect workaround let me know.

    Nick

Reply
  • Hi Paule

    I think what you're looking for is the grouping set to 1 and then adjust the trail ('Even' is the normal setting) but this isn't going to work nicely until you have sub-grouping, sorry. There are workarounds with effects but it isn't nice and I'd use another cuelist.

    If you want ugly effect workaround let me know.

    Nick

Children
  • I´m not shure if I get you right. When Grouping is set to 1 I can adjust the trail without having an effect, they all move at once. Looks as it would only work on the whole "grouping" like I want it. But thats strange to me ´cause when grouping is 3 the trail, as already said, affects the channels within AND between the "grouping".

    I´m Also wondering that with grouping 3 it won´t start with the first channel selected in live but the third. So when I want it to start in the middle = Ch. 3(and working ith your dummy channel) the order has to be 1+2+3+5+4+99...

     

    In principal I´d be interested to get enlightened but I´m afraid that I maybe won´t be able to follow you...

    On the other hand stupid me recognized that I´m still on v1.9.6 and not v1.9.12! Maybe there are already some changes?

     

    I think I´ll wait the few days till 2.0 before I go on playing ;-)

    For now the 2. Cuelist is working well and will do it.

     

    Thanks for your patience



    [edited by: Paule at 6:03 AM (GMT -6) on Thu, Mar 14 2013]
  • Hey,

    While this subject has been brought up, and I'm really happy sub grouping is on the list to be implemented. I wondered if there has been any talk about the visibility of seeing how an effect has been applied to a selection of channels

    At current as far as I know there's no way of seeing how an effect will play back when you have applied it to a group in a certain order, exactly like the scenario here, other than actually running the cue.

    Does that seem odd?

     

  • Hi Sammy

    You should see this in the Effect Status Display, I've just done a simple test and this is working but I'll have a closer look later.

    Paule, more later when back in my slow tech!

    Nick

  • Thanks Nick,

    I didn't realise it was displayed there.

     

    Thanks muchly.

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