2 scene or not to scene

I happen to agree, but I'm still not clear where Ion will end up. 

Here's a link to a thread on the Smartfade section from last October:

http://community.etcconnect.com/forums/post/3635.aspx

David Lincecum added some thoughts as to what ETC's thinking was on the subject.  Not sure if the thinking has changed any.

At the bottom of the post, click on View Complete Thread.

SB 

So this is not meant to be a criticism, or even an advocacy for one style or another, but I honestly don't understand why someone would ever want to use two scene mode for any sort of event...  To my way of thinking it's a little like insisting your new computer can use 5 1/4" floppies.  What exactly is driving your (our your clients) desire for two (or three or four) scene presets?

Jim 

“So this is not meant to be a criticism, or even an advocacy for one style or another, but I honestly don't understand why someone would ever want to use two scene mode for any sort of event... To my way of thinking it's a little like insisting your new computer can use 5 1/4" floppies. What exactly is driving your (our your clients) desire for two (or three or four) scene presets? “

Couple of thoughts on the subject, one being a marketing issue, the other operations.

Marketing:

The comments from David Lincecum on 12/14 gave us some insight into where some of the ETC folks heads are at in terms of replacing the Express 2 scene consoles, with Smartfade seemingly the answer. 

It's a good question whether the countless High Schools that currently own Express 2 scene's will find the current (ETC) choices a satisfactory solution when the time comes to replace the Express, given that there is currently and seemingly a large gap (to this user) in both features and function between the high end Smartfade and an Ion with fader wings.

Presumably ETC will not be manufacturing the Express forever, but it remains to be seen as to how ETC marketing will deal with this, especially since Strand is now well placed for that market with it's assorted Preset and Sub Palettes.

Operations:

I use the 2 scene capability of my Express 48/Emphasis 2d system frequently enough to make me wait until some additional Ion versions are out in the field and I can wait till ETC decides as to how they deal with some functionality of the fader wings on the Ion.

Do I need 2 scene ?. Probably not.

Do I need a lot of manual handles ?. Yup. All the time.

I am currently running a month's worth of annoying dance school recitals (8 total). All but one are one-off's with no cue'ing and no rehearsals with lighting. The SM takes notes during the “spacing” rehearsals and I run it all live (sometimes 5 hrs. worth). I need a lot of manual channels – 50 to 60 or so. I need a lot of sub looks – 30-36 or so. I use a lot of group mastering (that 2 scene currently provides for), and find the Emphasis “Supermaster” function a life saver.

I could easily run all this off an Ion with 120 or so faders on assorted wings (we also use 5 Studio Spots for some events). With that many faders, some sort of grouping control is required – which is what Supermasters on Emphasis allows for. Allowing sub grouping of the many, many faders makes control easier, otherwise why give Ion the ability to use 240 submasters?. How and why would you run a console with that many manual faders ? (other then a TV studio).

FWIW, the annoying dance school recitals are not the only events I see needing this kind of manual control.  I run more then a few touring events each year, who have no plot, no defined hookup, just a lot of suggestions as to color and focus, specials, washes, etc,... but need very fast access to those looks. Having to cue a show with 40- 60 channels using a keypad is painfully slow, as compared to simply labeling a 2 scene and building from manual channels. Granted that you cannot do a whole lot with ML's or scrollers using manual control, but I need a console that has the basic controls available as well.  And BTW, if you allow Supermasters, then you can cheat an Ion into thinking it's a 2 scene.  Cheap solution - fine you want a 2 scene ?, buy a LOT of fader wings. Good way to make some money on a sale.

I would also think that most lighting rental shops are going to want to see all of the Express functionality being retained, or at least available on whatever is billed as the Express replacement.  Seems to me that the Ion, with it's add-on fader wings is a great console for those shops. 

I would just hate to be the marketing person who had to explain why they lost a bid, cause the spec's said “48 channel, with 2 scene preset control”.  If Emphasis was any example, Ion should easily be able to handle this kind of very basic function that a lot of folks still use.

Steve Bailey

Lighting Director

Brooklyn Center for the Performing Arts

Brooklyn College

 thanks 

my point exactly....the off the cuff... seat of the pants... quick shows that pop up in these multi use environments.....

not talking lighting board philosiphy here....just functionality 

The faders are there it's just a bit of code

Just to support Steve's comments, when I was at Avery Fisher Hall, they had previously bought an Insight 108 specifically because it had 108 subs, and they were absolutely right.  And that's a bonus too, for a few older guys who aren't comfortable running cues on the faders.

But I can't count the number of JVC Jazz Festival (and similar events), with big names (think, Ray Charles for example), where there was no tech guy with the band at all.  I had to make it up as the show went along (sound check, no rehearsal), and usually no input from the Road Manager.  I suspect that Steve gets more elegant results than I did, because I often had to back out hot submasters with popsicle sticks and multiple fingers, where if he's fast enough, he can set up a new look and run into it as slowly as he wants.  Needless to say, we're not talking moving lights here.