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    Paule
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Darkmove / move for no reason

Hej everybody,

I do not know if this is a question or should be started as a discussion. Probably this has already been discussed but I didn´t find it.
It´s about what I call Darkmove. 
On EOS there can be much unnecessary movement when it programming wasn´t that clean and/or many cues have been copied around.
I´m regularly programming in Q-Only

 

For example:

Movinglight 1 is in Pr.1 in Q1-10, dimmer on
in Q11 dimmer goes to zero
in Q12 dimmer stays off but (for whatever reason) position changes to Pr. 2
in Q13 dimmer stays the same but position changes back to Pr. 1 
in Q14 dimmer goes full an Pr. 1 is the correct position
no blocking ´n stuff

In my scenario position change was an accident but the the console is telling the fixture to go to that position(even if it´s not necessary) anyway.
These days I´m working on a Transtechnik Console where the Darkmove is working completely different but that desk ignores position changes if dimmer stays off all the time.
Next desks here to come will probably be EOS/Gio but people here are concerned about that unecessary movement.
I know that much of that movement can be avoided an I love tracklist for easy cleaning that stuff but we still have to do it for sometimes 50-60 Movers, up to 20 Yokes and several scrollers. Biggest problem is the noise and for the yokes (with barndoors ´n stuff) the slow movement can be a problem as well.

My questions are now:
Is the behavior unavoidable as part of how EOS handles marking/darkmove?
Has that stuff already been discussed and if so how is ETCs look on that?
Is there any effort/will to change the behavior to something similar to my description?
How do you other operators see that? Should we (here in Salzburg) just be more accurate during programming or would you like the desk to do more of your work as well?


So, no offense here just want to know what I can expect/what you think about that.

Cheers
Paul

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  • +1
    Hi Paul.

    I was a NTX user for many years. I know that their Automark function (called Dark move) is really powerful. Unfortunately it doesn't help you train to program more cleanly.
    As far as I know there is no plan to add the ignoring function to Eos.
    So: it looks like you would have to be a bit more careful while programming.

    We're happy to help with tips how to avoid the unnecessary movements while programming or to clean it up afterwards, but that will only help with a part of it. The other part is paying attention to unnecessary moves and sneaking them before recording.

    Grüße, Ueli
  • 0 in reply to ueliriegg
    What we need is a "Automark Earliest" functionality. It is a wish for many years, but there is no reaction from etc to give the transtechnik users the same behaviour like on NT-Consoles.
  • 0 in reply to sstaub

    that's not the only difference... And Automark earliest wasn't what NTX did either.

    the NTX version is inbetween Eos automark and Eos referenced marking. if you want to have more functionality than automark, you should consider referenced marking.

  • 0 in reply to ueliriegg
    OK, I don´t have the feeling that there will come any further information from ETC on this.
    So far I´m fine as I know now what I have to expect.

    And I´m also fine with the advice to be more carefull during programming . I like a clean spreadsheet myself and do know that sneak is my friend.
    The only thing I don´t like that much in this context (I have heard that as an argument before) is that the lack of such a functionality will help me become a better/cleaner programmer.
    I don´t say that it´s not true but to me it always sounds as if I should take that as a feature.
    It´s not a feature.

    Don´t get me wrong I love to work on EOS but I love all the great features that make my life so much easier and I would do so with that kind of "Darkmove" as well.

    Thank you guys anyway!
    I´ll be here looking for more advice soon :-)
  • 0 in reply to Paule

    I'm far from a mover/marker guru, so please enlighten me.

    Paule you say you mostly program in Q-only. But Eos is a tracking console. Aren't tracking and Record Only, intended to help eliminate this type of problem? Even simply removing dark movers from the Record command seems clearer.

  • 0 in reply to RickR

    I´m not shure how to enlighten you Rick...
    One reason for me to work in Q-Only is that regularly my designers do not "think" tracking.
    Programming from scratch of course I wouldn´t mind the mode I´m in (of course not!) but with corrections problems (can) come up.
    In 9 out of 10 a colour change is not intended to be a change for the whole scene for example.
    Last year I had a production programming on Granny2 which I´d never change the mode to Q-Only (´cause other than EOS on MA spreadsheet starts lying to me then). But in fact I did more or less every correction in Q-Only on a cue by cue basis.
    So far about my life ;-)
    I got your point that there are tools to prevent things I don´t want to happen. And tracking has it´s advantages.
    That said I´d still have the problem with unintended moves when I copy cues from the other end of the show.

    And all that has not really to do anything with my feature request.

  • 0 in reply to Paule

    With the console in tracking mode, you can use a macro to record a cue out of sequence with minimal cleanup.  Go the cue you want to copy, then try something like this:

    Select_Active Make_Manual •
    Query @ 0 •
    Select_Last @ 0 •
    Record_Only

    Then type the new cue number.  That should store the intensity at zero for everything that was off (but not their NPs), and store the intensity and NPs for everything that was on. But I do not believe this macro will work if the console is in cue only mode.

Reply
  • 0 in reply to Paule

    With the console in tracking mode, you can use a macro to record a cue out of sequence with minimal cleanup.  Go the cue you want to copy, then try something like this:

    Select_Active Make_Manual •
    Query @ 0 •
    Select_Last @ 0 •
    Record_Only

    Then type the new cue number.  That should store the intensity at zero for everything that was off (but not their NPs), and store the intensity and NPs for everything that was on. But I do not believe this macro will work if the console is in cue only mode.

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