Controlling sneak time on a Sub

I'm building macros for a live busking setup but would love to know if it is possible to control the rate of sneak via a sub. So the sub could change from 0 sneak time to minutes within a macro.

 

An example macro:

'Group 1 colour palette 1 sneak SUB 12 ENTER'

 

Any advice you could offer or alternative options would be amazing. Thanks!

Parents
  • Since version 2.6 there's a "Manual Time Master", which does exactly what you want, even without the use of [Sneak].
    In the Fader Config, set the target of a fader to "Man Time" and set the maximum and minimum values to whatever you desire.
    This fader overwrites the manual time settings as long as it's active (De-/activate via Go/Flash),
    which makes [Sneak] pretty much obsolete for busking Palettes.

    You can even set more than one Manual Time Master, each with it's own range.
    So you could set one with a range of 0 to 5 and one with 6 to 10 for example.
    They won't collide as the LTP-concept applies. It might get a little confusing during busking though.

    As with any sub, the fader ribbon just shows the percentage of fader path completion and not the actual time set.
    But with a little mental arithmetic you can still be pretty precise with it.

  • Thank ChrDuda,

    Please could you explain how I would implement it into a macro?
    Would the macro need to include a reference to the Manual time master or would the Manual time master just work with the macro as followed:
    'Group 1 colour palette 1 ENTER'

    Thank you
  • Yes your macro will work.
    The Manual Time Master sets all global manual times, so every palette-type will be affected.
    The time set at the moment the Macro was activated will be used for the fade.

    For busking I think it would be easier to just use direct selects for the groups and palettes though.
    As the number of macros you'd have to write equals the number of groups, times the number of palettes,
    whereas the number of direct selects would just be groups + palettes.
    Depends on how many groups and palettes you have, but you could quickly amass a number of macros, that could be hard to keep track of and handle. Especially when all it saves you is the touch of a second button.

    Just a thought though. You'll have to weigh the time it takes to write them vs. the time it takes to press two buttons instead of one.

  • Great thank you, that is working perfectly!

    And yes great advice about the direct selects, may just do that.

    Is there a similar method using a master sub to control effect speed?

    Cheers
Reply Children
  • No, sadly there is no Rate Master for effects, like there is on MA-consoles for example.
    Rate-faders for every single effect is the only onboard option at the moment.

    If you use OSC though, it is possible to apply one value to multiple effects.
    You'd have to control it via a different device (tablet, laptop, ...) though.
    If that sounds like something you could integrate into your workflow, then check Luminosus out.
    It's a great free multi-platform application, that allows you to generate and manipulate values in many different ways and send them to eos via OSC. A little hard to explain all the different possibilities it gives you in short, so just have a look: https://www.luminosus.org
  • Thats annoying, so it is possible to apply a rate-fader but you would require one for each effect? If so please could you explain how it is possible to achieve this.

    I will defiantly check out Luminosus as I have used OSC in the past.

    Sorry last question, have you ever come across a way to hold the current state (so the current effects continue) as a new look is created using direct selects and then all selected effects are cued on the click of a button?

    Many Thanks
  • You have to apply the effect to the channels, then select the channels and record them to a sub.
    You then load the sub onto a fader.
    Alternatively you can select the channels, press [Record] and press the [Load]-button above the fader you want to use.
    In the Fader Config ([Tab][3][6]) you can set, what the fader controls and what the corresponding buttons do.

    You have to set the fader to "Effect Master" and set one of the two buttons to "Start/Stop Effect".
    If you push the fader up you should see the effect running. If not press the "Start/Stop" button once.

    You now have two options:
    Either keep the "Effect Master" to fade the effect in and out by hand, or get rid of it and just start and stop the effect with the button.

    If you want to keep it and use a second fader for the rate:
    Go back to the Fader Config and tap the field that says "1x" above the fader. A menu pops up, that allows you to assign up to 3 faders to the sub. Choose "2x" and make the new second fader an "Effect Rate"-fader. That's it.

    If you don't need the "Effect Master", you can simply replace it with the "Effect Rate".
    Just go back to the Fader Config and choose "Effect Rate" for the fader.
    This will only work if you put the "Effect Master" to 100% before you replace it, because otherwise you would control the rate of an effect that is not outputting anything...
    Now you have just one fader to control the rate and the button to start and stop.
    How the effect fades in and out depends on what is set in the "Entry" and "Exit" settings of the effect.

    To my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong), there is no way to get an "Effect Rate"-fader for an effect, without recording a running effect to a sub first. Well, except via OSC.


    As for your second question, I'm not quite sure what you mean...
    If you want the effects to stop where they are at the moment and hold that state, you'll have to use the [Freeze]-key.
    You can use [Freeze] on specific effects (ex: [Freeze][1]+[3]) or on all effects.
    They will hold the state until you unfreeze them by pressing [Freeze] again.
    Sorry, if that is not what you meant...

    And for the effect-rate-thing... It could very well be, that there are much better/easier ways to handle this. What I described is just the way I do it.
  • Thanks for that, so detailed and I really understand Effect Masters now.

    Sorry I didn't quite explain myself.
    The idea is that mid song before a build up I can start creating the next 'look' using Direct selects without it going live.

    For example:
    The song is building up for a drop.
    I raise a Sub or click a macro which makes all effects, colours and gobos remain the same.
    Now that the fader is up, I am able to select effects, colour pallets and gobos for the upcoming drop without it effecting the stage look.
    When the song drops I am able to lower the fader or click a macro which releases the pre-selected effects, colour pallets and gobos at the same time.

    This most likely makes no sense and is not possible but just thought I would ask.

    Thanks
  • I think the easiest way to achieve this is to work with cues in Blind.
    In blind you can create cues without it affecting the output.
    You could prepare everything just as you would in live, with Direct Selects and everything.

    For example:
    You have a look on stage that is recorded in Cue 10. The song is building up and you'd like to start a couple of effects, stop others and change the colours, maybe also take out the front lights or something.
    In Blind you create the next Cue by pressing [Cue] [11] [Enter] (or 10.1, depending on your numbering taste).
    When you are in Tracking mode, which would be preferable for this, the Cue you just created should hold the values that are currently on stage, as they are tracked from Cue 10.

    You can now edit the look to your liking. Stop some effects, change the rate of effects, start new ones. Change the color of the Cycs and take out the front lights. All changes you make are immediately saved and ready to be recalled. The only thing you might want to do is give the cue a time. When you are done and the build-up has reached it's finale, you just press [Go] and the Cue is fired in the time you specified. You don't have to leave Blind mode to fire the cue. In fact you can prepare the next look right away. If you are fast enough, you could even work ahead further.
    This also gives you the possibilitie to recall looks. By using the syntax [Cue] [#] [CopyTo] [Cue] [#] you can copy Cues you already recorded.
    Something you'll definitely copy a few times would be the moderation-look for example. Also if you had a good look in the first verse and want to use it for the second -> Copy it.


    There is one other way I can think of, to achieve what you want, but it involves a ton (and I mean a ton) of macros and is rather hard to set up. Even harder to explain. It revolves around using macros to copy values from palettes to "placeholder-palettes" (or presets), that can then be recalled via a macro.
    I built a magic sheet once that allowed me to assign colors to different groups and then output them all at the same time, but I'm not shure if this would work with effects.
    It took a lot of time to get done just for colors and in the end I didn't really use it.

  • Thank you, I hadn't even thought about doing that way. I will defiantly have a go and using your method.

    Yes like you say, its probably just easier to avoid multiple macros and keep it simple.

    Many thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.
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