how to record only one color of a fixture

The trick is to selectively record the red parameter instead of the unqualified record which recorded every attribute.

Channel x {red} Record Sub y Enter

where {red} can be entered via a click on the CIA attribute tile or ML control header.

Ooops yep. Now what about intensity. I need to have that at full also. When I hit red then intens either full or 100 then record it give an error.

What I am seeing is selective recording can't be for more than one thing. So to make an intensity sub I just do channel 504 intens record sub 54 enter and when I bring it up it then runs from 0 to 100 and back down.

Same for Fog or any other single item.

It's a little confusing since when recording cues there can be multiple commands.

No you can record multiple parameters in a single sub.

Your problem earlier with the syntax is that with red you did it right and set the red to 100 first and then did the record command,  but when you did intensity you tried to set it in the record command.

So if you want to record bits the following are examples

channel 1  record sub 1  records all of them

channel 1 red record sub 1  records red

channel 1 red blue record sub 1  records red and blue

channel 1 intensity red record sub 1 records intensity and red

You may find it useful in the subs tab select a single sub (make sure it is a single sub as that screen likes to select several if you are not careful)  then press the Edit button on the bottom right of the screen.  You should then get a table view of the content of the sub (you can press flexi a few times to just display the fixtures with values in the sub).

From that screen you can correct things and also its useful to see what you've actually got in the sub as sometimes you can end recording something you didn't.

I haven't been closely following this thread, but I haven't seen anyone recommend changing the HOME position of the LED unit, which will do away with the need for recording the intensity of the channel.

(not at my console at the moment)

somewhere in set up (systems?) is the Home Preset 'enter the number here" box.

in Live, Sneak Enter, then record the LED channels at full intensity as preset 99.9 (or whatever).  in the Home Preset box, enter 99.9.

SNEAK ENTER to change from the home position of 0% to the new home position of 100%.

Then do as others have described, recording ONLY the red parameter onto a sub handle. 

typically, intensities home to 0% (Home is OFF).  this wants to be changed so that pushing the red handle up, the intensity is already set by the Home Preset (of FULL)

Hope this helps.

Andrew

Home preset ignores intensities, so no, that doesn't work. You need the intensities to come from somewhere. Cue or sub..

I just typed a long reply and hit Reply and as got a reply error and my work disappeared. I should have learned to copy my reply before sending as this happens often. So I will try again:

I am the first to admit that in some areas of console language I am completely in the dark. I just can't get my brain to understand the language it speaks in some circumstances and this is definitely one. I apologize to everyone who is on the road to frustration reading my replies.

I see this all the time: an instructor, who knows the topic inside and out, either technically or from experience has a hard time explaining to someone raw how a certain thing works because that instructor sees it clearly and the student does not. I am one who does not see this.

I will understand completely anyone who chooses to step away from trying to clear my fog but to those who choose to hang in there you will never know how much I will appreciate it.

Here are some examples given with my comments as to why it either works or not: I will attach a name before each example ONLY to refer to who made it above and NOT raising any issue with it.

Uelireigg: 504 red record sub 54 enter: I know it works because that is what I was told to do, however I don't know why it works because red is not assigned a value. All I can think is the value will automatically refer to the fixture default setting in the fixture library, therefore if that setting is what I want sub 54 to reach then no specific red value is needed. If this thought is incorrect then I need a little direction how sub 54 knows that value red should go to when raised.

Note: when I recorded sub 54 in that manner and brought it up, fixture 504 red showed nothing happening in the Live Table. I would think the red value would either snap to 100 in yellow or snap to 0 and progress to 100 in yellow as the fader is raised.

Me: 504 intens 100 record sub... My "thought" on this not working is not so much because I am trying to combine two commands into one but why it sees me as trying to combine two commands into one when in an earlier example it was ok to enter a value - channel x intens + red 100 (two commands in one red 100.

MikeA: channel x green+blue 0 - same as the last one - isn't that trying to combine two commands into one? Why not?

MikeA: channel 1 red blue record sub 1 - why is no + sign needed when in the last example it is?

Me: 504 intens record sub 54 - no one has said this is the correct command for an intensity only sub and if so how does it know what value that sub intens will reach at full? Lets say I want the intensity to only go to 50% when the fader is all the way up. How does that get put into the record sub string? I ask this to hopefully help me see how to keep strings in the proper order without combining more than one thing into a command.

MikeA: channel 1 intensity red record sub 1 - Same question as above: how does the sub know what values intens and red use when bringing it up? Unless this has already been answered.

MikeA: you replied: Your problem earlier with the syntax is that with red you did it right and set the red to 100 first and then did the record command,  but when you did intensity you tried to set it in the record command. I don't see where I set red to 100 first in any of my previous comments. That's very confusing to me.

I am having faith that the light will suddenly turn on and I will say: OH how stupid of me. Why did I not see that? and walk away blessed, a scratch smarter and scratching my head all at the same time.

My Bad.  I had it backwards:

this may not work for Jeff, if he still wants normal LED control beyond his one Red Only sub.

for 3 colour mixing by 3 sub handles:

record each sub with only Red data, Green Data, Blue data.  make sure to NOT have a 0 for the other  colours.  the sub also needs the Intensity for the Channel.

Make a Preset for Home: where each colour is recorded at 0%

make that preset the Home preset.

In Live, sneak the channels so the LED colours move from 100% home to 0% home.

Now fade up 1 channel, 1 colour should appear.  fade up another channel and you'll colour mix between those 2 colours.  pull down 1st sub, and you should have only the 2nd colour up.

In Jeff's specific example, you just need to 1 sub for your red, and ignore making G and B subs.

Hope this helps.  stepping out now before I make it worse.

Andrew

Yeah, sometimes instructors assume that explanations and instructions that have worked for years will still work when you explain it again...

The very concept of record is taking the current value. That's how recording cues work. When you record a cue and one channel is set to 50 and another one is set to 100, have you ever seen the resulting cue have those channels at their home level (which is 0 for intensity)? No, of course not! You would expect to get 50 and 100 respectively and this is exactly what you'll get.

So when recording a sub why should that be any different? You used record so the console will use the current level. You want the level in the sub (i.e. the value you'll get with the sub at full) be 100? Then set the level to 100 and record this as sub

Communication is send/receive. Instruction receive at student end can vary person to person and can be interpreted and misunderstood by different brains. Has been that way forever. Unfortunately I have always been a poor student and need a variety of types of explanations in order to finally hit the one I "understand" and usually it needs to be first grade level explanation. Does not make a bad or good instructor. It is usually the student receiving that's the problem. However there certainly are some bad instructors. I am one of those also.

Soo that being said the explanations of recording a sub cross up my brain because I still don't understand how to input a value of a specific parameter into the sub; especially intens. No one yet has given me the string for making an intens sub.

When I record a cue I say 504 @ 53 record cue 1 and it records the cue with channel 504 at 53% without the syntax error. Or in your example channel 504@50+505@100 record cue 1 it works with those two channels at 50 and 100.

But when I say 504 intens 100 or @ 100 record I get the syntax error. And as you said Ueliriegg that is trying to combine two commands into one which is where I am lost.

Then as MikeA said inserting a value for color is ok even without the @. Channel x green+blue 0. I just must be missing something so obvious as I know beyond a shadow of a doubt this is not something new to do and has been done by hundreds of operators all over the world. I'm just one that can't grasp how.

I am not at the venue until tomorrow so I won't be able to do each of the suggestions to see each result and possibly understand better but in the meantime I sure would like to have some sort of grasp on the concept and also have an exact intens only string for a sub.

To be specific

Jeff Toussieng said:

504 @ 53 record cue 1

is not valid syntax, nor is

Jeff Toussieng said:

504@50+505@100 record cue 1

As Ueli said you are combining two commands intro one, which wont work.

The two commands are:

1. [504] [@] [53] [Enter]

2. [Record] [Cue] [1] [Enter]

To record intensity into a submaster you first need to give the channel an intensity that you want it to have when the submaster is at 100% and then you need to record that value into the submaster. So two steps.

1. [504] [@] [100] [Enter] - Set the intensity of Channel 504 to 100%

2. [504] {Intensity} [Record] [Sub] [1] [Enter] - Recording specifically the intensity of Channel 504, into Sub 1.

[Record] grabs the value from live, from what ever the light is doing right now, and ordinarily would grab all values. But we've been specific, we've said we just want intensity by prefacing the [Record] command with {Intensity}. So because we set channel 504 to 100% in Step 1, that level is now live and the current value of channel 504. So Step 2 will take that value and record it to Sub 1.

That's my whole point!

When recording a cue Chan 504 at 53 Record Cue 1 Enter does NOT work and neither will it when recording a sub.

Responding to your specific questions on my points

> MikeA: channel x green+blue 0 - same as the last one - isn't that trying to combine two commands into one? Why not?

Its just specifing the two parameters to set in the single command

> MikeA: channel 1 red blue record sub 1 - why is no + sign needed when in the last example it is?

that is maybe my bad,  I was typing from memory and I'm, sure somewhere when you type two parameters it displays a + between them.   In the second post I actually checked what I was writing on Nomads

> Me: 504 intens record sub 54 - no one has said this is the correct command for an intensity only sub and if so how does it know what value that sub intens will reach at full? Lets say I want the intensity to only go to 50% when the fader is all the way up. How does that get put into the record sub string? I ask this to hopefully help me see how to keep strings in the proper order without combining more than one thing into a command.

I think the bit you have missed that others have now commented on and has hopefully triggered the light bulb moment is that when you are recording a sub (or a cue or a pallet etc.) the values for the channels/parameters come from whatever you've got them currently set to.  Hence you are not specifing them on the record command line.

> MikeA: you replied: Your problem earlier with the syntax is that with red you did it right and set the red to 100 first and then did the record command,  but when you did intensity you tried to set it in the record command. I don't see where I set red to 100 first in any of my previous comments. That's very confusing to me.

By that I meant the light was on and doing what you wanted before you recorded it

Sammy - Thank you. I finally was able to get an understandable response (to me) by my record cue statements without Enter. I see by your example values must be set first with a completed command line when recording specific parameters. What I originally didn't understand is by completing the command it turns on or sets all other parameters as well and I thought that would not work because all unwanted parameters cannot be in the record. So I see now that first setting everything then making a second command picking just one parameter or whatever number of specific parameters next then using record works without a value because that value is already "running".

Did the light come on yet or am I missing it still ? :-)

> MikeA: channel x green+blue 0 - same as the last one - isn't that trying to combine two commands into one? Why not?

Its just specifying the two parameters to set in the single command

This looks like 3 parameters; 2 colors and 1 value. So I am still missing why channel x green+blue 0 is not telling it three things in one. Would not the fixture need a channel x green+blue 0 enter then channel x green+blue record...?

MikeA - the + in some examples and not in others did throw me off but when I get back to my console you bet I will be working some different combinations to see the need or not of a +.

Regarding the light was on and doing what I wanted, I am still missing that whole thing, unless you mean I already set 504 parameters with enter then did a record sub ? If so that makes sense now.

Jeff Toussieng said:

> MikeA: channel x green+blue 0 - same as the last one - isn't that trying to combine two commands into one? Why not?

> Its just specifying the two parameters to set in the single command

> This looks like 3 parameters; 2 colors and 1 value. So I am still missing why channel x green+blue 0 is not telling it three things in one. Would not the fixture need a channel x green+blue 0 enter then channel x green+blue record...?

the command is specifying two parameter of the fixture ie  green and blue and setting those parameters to 0.

It is a single command.

What it didn't like was when you tried to make a record command set the values of the parameters at the same time as saying record them.

What I think you have understood now is that in one (or more) commands you set the paramter values of the fixture and then in seperate command you say which parameters of the fixture you want to record somewhere (a sub, a cue, a pallet or a preset)

> MikeA - the + in some examples and not in others did throw me off but when I get back to my console you bet I will be working some different combinations to see the need or not of a +.

Its actually a small inconsistent in the way EOS displays things.

If when entering the command line you click on the cell in the table display for red and then click in the cell for green it  then it shows the command line as  channel 1 red + green.

If you do the same but click on the Red and Green in the CIA popup at the bottom then it shows as channel 1 red green

(if you then click on blue in the grid it actually changes the line to then read channel 1 red + green + blue)

> Regarding the light was on and doing what I wanted, I am still missing that whole thing, unless you mean I already set 504 parameters with enter then did a record sub ? If so that makes sense now.

Yes that's what I am saying.  

The way things work with EOS is you get it looking like you want and then record it.   (or you edit in blind, which as its name suggests you cant see what you are doing)

MikeA: not intentionally trying to beat this into the ground but I still don't see why channel x green+blue 0 is not a multi command - 2 commands in one.

Yes I did orig say it looked like 3 and see that green+blue is one but adding the value of 0 appears to make it two commands which is just what kept happening to me when entering it that way. Command line 215 red blue 0 record gets the Record-error syntax.

Ok if you take the line channel x green+blue 0

that is an abbreviation for what you would write in english as

channel x green and blue set at 0

So the verb in english language terms  is "set" 

Think of a command as a verb (an action thing was what we were taught verbs were in my school)

likewise the line

channel x green+blue record n

is an abreviation for

channel x green and blue record values in n

So the verb in english is record ie the command

So when you keyed in

215 red blue 0 record

you tried to say two verbs "set at " and "record" in the same sentence.

EOS's language processor (parser in the jargon) doesn't allow for compound sentences containing two verbs (I probably need to say generally as there may be some place where they added special code to handle something that was too clunky otherwise, but I can't think of an example but never say never)

Does that explain it?

Ok if you take the line channel x green+blue 0

that is an abbreviation for what you would write in english as

channel x green and blue set at 0

So the verb in english language terms  is "set" 

Think of a command as a verb (an action thing was what we were taught verbs were in my school)

likewise the line

channel x green+blue record n

is an abreviation for

channel x green and blue record values in n

So the verb in english is record ie the command

So when you keyed in

215 red blue 0 record

you tried to say two verbs "set at " and "record" in the same sentence.

EOS's language processor (parser in the jargon) doesn't allow for compound sentences containing two verbs (I probably need to say generally as there may be some place where they added special code to handle something that was too clunky otherwise, but I can't think of an example but never say never)

Does that explain it?

it doesn't explain it because that very syntax is what you showed me in several examples of the correct way to do it and I kept asking why that was not multi commands in one.

Here are some of your examples:

channel x intensity + red 100

channel x green+blue 0

Me to you and you back:

MikeA: channel x green+blue 0 - same as the last one - isn't that trying to combine two commands into one? Why not?

Its just specifying the two parameters to set in the single command

you also:

the command is specifying two parameter of the fixture ie  green and blue and setting those parameters to 0.

It is a single command.

Every time I think I get it I read these examples and it throws me off, especially when I actually key them in that way and in fact get the syntax error. I would think that in my understanding of this instead of channel x green+blue 0 the operator should be setting the green and blue at 0 first and terminate the command then do a record sub #.

Those examples are single commands and they work (other than the + sign you don't type in although its displayed in some cases as previously noted).

In each case you do need to press enter to tell EOS to execute the command.

So in summary

channel x green blue 0  ENTER

is a single command that will set the green and blue to 0

channel x green blue record n  ENTER

is a single command that will record the green and blue values on channel x into n

But

channel x green blue 0 record n  ENTER

Is two commands mangled together and it will complain as soon as you put in the second verb ie the word record before you get a chance to finish the rest of the mangling,

Your last sentence above

"I would think that in my understanding of this instead of channel x green+blue 0 the operator should be setting the green and blue at 0 first and terminate the command then do a record sub #"

is almost correct other than the command channel x green+blue 0 ENTER, is exactly the command the operator types in to set green and blue at 0 first.

Communication. AARRGGG. I am hoping to at least get you into my mind to see why this has drug on so long for me and not make it look like I am trying to throw you under the bus.

The discussion was always how to put a single parameter on a sub. In the below italicized reply it appears very clear "to me" that you were referring to recording the sub and not setting the fixture(s) first with Enter and it followed in subsequent examples:

If you are really never wanting to bring up two subs that control these light,  ie you literally want the light to snap to red as you start to move the fader from whatever colour it was before,  then you do actually record the sub as 

channel x intensity + red 100

channel x green+blue 0

and set as an intensity master

I'm guessing you read it in your thinking and it says " first do Enter after channel x intensity + red 100. Next step channel x intensity + red (or intensity red) record sub x enter". However my mind was telling me when you say "you do actually record the sub as" means that is the step. To me the example without the completion command looked like channel x intensity + red record sub x because of "..you do actually record the sub as" I kept trying to address that and it wasn't answered until now.

Soooo you finally confirmed what I eventually thought I understood several replies ago that the fixture values need to be set first then do the record sub picking the parameter(s) first WITHOUT any values. And yes that includes Enter.

I'm not sure where it went but I also sent a totally separate reply to my original post that when I recorded just the intensity of the Vesuvios and Geysers after setting them to full: channel x @@ then channel x intens record sub x it recorded.

On screen it showed the intensity of them in yellow to raise and lower 0-100 and back and was the only thing changing however all colors went up on the actual fixtures, unless I had the "red" sub up. Then it only raised the red. So my guess is because the fixture defaults are colors full when intens is moved it is tied to them somehow unless something interrupts that such as the red sub?

Yes when I was saying

if you are really never wanting to bring up two subs that control these light,  ie you literally want the light to snap to red as you start to move the fader from whatever colour it was before,  then you do actually record the sub as 

channel x intensity + red 100

channel x green+blue 0

and set as an intensity master

I was meaning pressing enter at the end of each of those lines, so the intensity was at 100 and red was at a 100 and green and blue were at 0.

Then a simple unqualified record (ie record sub n enter) will record all the values and the sub will behave in the manner described ie it snaps to colour and fades.

(the discussion about put the parameter qualification on the record sub came a bit later in the conversation, as at that point we were just answering your original question which was why it faded the colours, which was because it wasn't an intensity master).

Later on we discussed how you would more normally use the record parameter qualifications to enable one fade to be red and one green and one blue etc for more normal colour mixing.

Regarding the bit

On screen it showed the intensity of them in yellow to raise and lower 0-100 and back and was the only thing changing however all colors went up on the actual fixtures

That is that the home values in the patch for all the colour channels is typically 100 unless you change them, that means setting the intensity of the fixture to 100 makes it produce light which generally is expected behaviour,  however it can produce some unexpected results some of which you saw right at the start of this post  "When I bring up the sub the colors all fade from 100 to 0"  what you are seeing there is as you fade down the fader the colours are gradually released back to the background state which if no cue was previously owning the fixture, would be the home values. 

So if you are actually using faders to mix colours etc you may find it easier to set the home values to zero or have a cue at the start of the show file that sets them to zero, and then you wont get what seems like counter intuive behaviour of fading down and the colour goes up.