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    rtooker
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Non Dim

I've recently learned that patching a channel as a generic non-dim doesn't actually give the function one would expect. In other consoles I've used with non-dim as a type, and in ETC products like Sensor racks, non-dim is full at x%. On Eos/Ion, it's a hot patch, always on. To get the non-dim function I'd expect you patch a dimmer, then assign the full at 1% curve, like you would with an Expression.

Further, when you look at the tombstone view, a "non-dim" channel shows as if it were a multi-parameter fixture, with the squiggly line under it, when it's not anything you can control at all.

Is there a reason for this behavior? It seems counter intuitive, particularly given that other ETC products that use the name have different functions, and given that I've never seen any one use non-dim and hot patch as synonyms. Are there other consoles that function this way?

Thanks

Rob Tooker

  • Rob, we are changing the word "non dim" in the "generic" profile to read hot patch, as that is what it is.  We are adding a non-dim at 50% in the generic profiles.    The display will also be changed to show as a standard dimmer channel.

    thanks,

    a

     

  • in reply to Anne Valentino

    Dear Anne,

    I'm working with Ion V1.7 (just updated to 1.8) with fluorescents on normal dimmers and some HPI-t's on switchpacks. I'm using them as non-dim at 50%, but I'm puzzled by it's behavior.

    I was expecting a fixture with only on or off intensity. Instead the Ion shows me intensities like it is a normal dimmer with percentages. Also the Ion shows grey value's I didn't give (like 25%). When pressing Sneak-enter this value goes back to zero (in red) and returns to 25% again when it's at zero. 

    Also when go-to-cue-out my fluorescents are 'faded' out. 

    So how is this supposed to function. In my vision i think a non-dim should either be 'on' or 'off' instead of having a value. What's ETC vision and how should I work with it.

    Regards,

    Remko

     

  • in reply to rwely

    Remko.  It should indeed.  Will take a look at the profile.  In the meantime, you could  build a curve and apply the curve in patch.  This one is simple and fastest built from the command line.  Once your new curve is specified and opened for editing, 1 thru 49 at 0.  50 thru 100 at full.   I checked this and the DMX output is behaving as expected.  The channel output will continue to fade in a linear fashion, but if you look in About/Background, you can see the DMX output is either at 0 or 255.

    Sorry, we will get that non-dim profile fixed.  

    a

     

  • in reply to Anne Valentino

    I've tied to do the same thing. ended up using curve 905? (full @ 1%.) I'm running V 1.4. I'm wondering if the issue is in the dimmer it's-self. Could the dimmer not have an on/off switch; so, it would just fade up/down as fast as it could? I have Sensor+ Dimmer Racks.

    Jake.

  • in reply to jhamil

    Yes, this is correct, writing the curve is not going to turn this in to a switched mode.  There are a couple of different options available.  Tech support can provide more commentary.

  • in reply to jhamil

    In Sensor+ Racks, you have a couple of choices on how to make a dimmer go from 0% to Full with out dimming in between. Both of these options are set in the rack and control the firing mode of the dimmer.

    The first option is Switched mode. Switched mode is voltage unregulated (meaning that the incoming power is not changed before output) and has a default threshold (percentage at which it will turn on) of 50%. Essentially full at 50%.

    The second option is Non-Dim. Non-Dim is voltage regulated (meaning that the dimmer will regulate the voltage to maintain a specific voltage when on) with a default threshold of 1%. Essentially full at 1%. The major difference here is that the default voltage that the module will try to maintain is 115V. If you desire a different voltage, you can set it using the minimum and maximum scale voltage settings for the dimmer. Keep in mind that you can set the voltage higher than what the rack may be powered with, if that happens, the module will allow all of the input voltage through.

    In your case, I would recommend using switched mode instead of non-dim mode. You can change the threshold to turn on at any percentage you like. Then on the console, when you send a level above that percentage, your light would be on, and when you drop below that level it will turn off.

    For more information about the firing modes available as well as how to configure them, please check out the CEM+ Configuration Manual: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/manuals/Sensor__CEM__v3.0__User-Config_Manual_revA.pdf 

    As always, if you need additional assistance or would like to talk this solution through with a technician, please feel free to call us at 800-688-4116.

     

  • in reply to Anne Valentino

    In doing some research David North here at ETC gave me this posting to describe the differences between using a curve on a console and setting the firing mode at the dimmer racks.  This covers both cem+ and cem.

     

    On a CEM+ system: "Always On" and "Switched" are unregulated but that does not mean the SCR is bypassed it just means it is turned on and not PWM fired. However, as there are chokes in the dimmer module and minimum current requirements to fire a SCR, you are not going to get a 100% complete sinewave output and therefore should cautiously use these settings for movers, et al. Read that to be, do not do it; use R20s or CC20s.

    On CEM systems (v3.x and greater): "Switched" is unregulated, "Non-Dim" is regulated, and "Always On" is a control function separate of the two. Basically, "Always On" is a choice you could make in the Threshold which defined where in control input percentage the dimmer is then allowed to start its dimming or switching function. Make sense? Threshold of 50 and Mode of Non-Dim means that once you reach 50% control, the dimmer regulates at the Scale Voltage setting. A Threshold of Always On and Mode of Switched would mean that the dimmer is set to full output all the time no matter what control levels are given. So many options......

    Parked Dimmers and Dimmer Curves: Everyone should be very careful in the use of Parked Dimmers and Dimmer Curves. Many consoles have a Park feature in which the control output is set to a defined level each time the console is turned on. Parking a dimmer to full on a console is by far not the same as setting a dimmer to an unregulated output. When parking a dimmer to full or using the non-dim curve or creating your own curve on a console, the dimmer is then receiving a 100% on DMX (or sACN or ECMUX or whatever) but the dimmer is likely still dimming (ie regulating) to its top configured voltage output. On CEM and CEM+ this defaults to 115V. Anytime one wishes to have full, unregulated output from a dimmer then this must be done as a dimmer function. Hopefully I haven't made things less clear.

    Final word: Non-dimmable power supplied devices, which may include scrollers, moving lights, opto-splitters, strobes, scanners, LED fixtures, mirror ball motors, water-effect projectors, fog machines, video projectors, etc, should be on solid power which is either a relay or circuit breaker. A dimmer might work, but it might not.

    Let me know if anyone needs more information.

  • in reply to jruth

    jruth said:

    In doing some research David North here at ETC gave me this posting to describe the differences between using a curve on a console and setting the firing mode at the dimmer racks.  This covers both cem+ and cem.

     

    On a CEM+ system: "Always On" and "Switched" are unregulated but that does not mean the SCR is bypassed it just means it is turned on and not PWM fired. However, as there are chokes in the dimmer module and minimum current requirements to fire a SCR, you are not going to get a 100% complete sinewave output and therefore should cautiously use these settings for movers, et al. Read that to be, do not do it; use R20s or CC20s.

    On CEM systems (v3.x and greater): "Switched" is unregulated, "Non-Dim" is regulated, and "Always On" is a control function separate of the two. Basically, "Always On" is a choice you could make in the Threshold which defined where in control input percentage the dimmer is then allowed to start its dimming or switching function. Make sense? Threshold of 50 and Mode of Non-Dim means that once you reach 50% control, the dimmer regulates at the Scale Voltage setting. A Threshold of Always On and Mode of Switched would mean that the dimmer is set to full output all the time no matter what control levels are given. So many options......

    Parked Dimmers and Dimmer Curves: Everyone should be very careful in the use of Parked Dimmers and Dimmer Curves. Many consoles have a Park feature in which the control output is set to a defined level each time the console is turned on. Parking a dimmer to full on a console is by far not the same as setting a dimmer to an unregulated output. When parking a dimmer to full or using the non-dim curve or creating your own curve on a console, the dimmer is then receiving a 100% on DMX (or sACN or ECMUX or whatever) but the dimmer is likely still dimming (ie regulating) to its top configured voltage output. On CEM and CEM+ this defaults to 115V. Anytime one wishes to have full, unregulated output from a dimmer then this must be done as a dimmer function. Hopefully I haven't made things less clear.

    Final word: Non-dimmable power supplied devices, which may include scrollers, moving lights, opto-splitters, strobes, scanners, LED fixtures, mirror ball motors, water-effect projectors, fog machines, video projectors, etc, should be on solid power which is either a relay or circuit breaker. A dimmer might work, but it might not.
    Let me know if anyone needs more information.

    jruth said:
    Let me know if anyone needs more information.

     

    For starters my show is doen and am NOW understanding for future shows.

    Everything you have stated above I read in my CEM+ Manuels and understand the differences. But still am confused on which would be better for me.

     

    What I was trying to do: Create a believeable lighting sequence. flash bulbs weren't reliable enough. thefew spare fixture I had 'left-over' didn't do the job at all.

    How I programed my Ion: patched the channel using full @ 1% curve.

     

    The Effect worked GREAT! and the strip lights still appear to be working fine.

     

    What I'm wondering: 1) Would have programming the dimmer pack in switch mode worked better? unregulated voltage wouldn't havebeen any differentthan the voltage comming through th switch it was connected to. 2) Does switch mode act the same and provide the same voltage as a switch on the wallor a breaker?

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