Security on EOS/Locking Record

Yes!!  Great idea!

+1

Until...

Someone maliciously locks the desk and doesn't reveal the password, or

You swap out a moving light and have to update the presets and can't remember the password..

-1

First you would have to give them the password, and in this day and age if you can't remember your password then updating your presets might be the least of your worries :-). I'd rather be able to lock it out while students are running a show than get phone calls at half hour saying they were "doing something" and now they've messed up the show or changed it.  Or they just thought the Cyc would look better in that different shade of green !

I think you need to work with students to fully understand the need for this option !!

Geoff

First you would have to give them the password, and in this day and age if you can't remember your password then updating your presets might be the least of your worries :-). I'd rather be able to lock it out while students are running a show than get phone calls at half hour saying they were "doing something" and now they've messed up the show or changed it.  Or they just thought the Cyc would look better in that different shade of green !

I think you need to work with students to fully understand the need for this option !!

Geoff

Just a word or two about this topic.  Security log in is getting higher to the top of the "to do" list.  When this is implemented (and it won't be in the next feature release, just so you know), you will have the option to use the feature or not.  Should you choose to use the feature, there will be no way for one person (except for the system admin, who sets up all users, their password and the level of access to the system they will have) to lock everyone else off of the system.    In the past, when we've implemented this feature, there is always a backdoor password, known to the tech service guys.   So, tech serve always has the ability to unlock a system.   Keep in mind this feature won't be implemented with the level of security for online banking .... or even your facebook account.     It's intended just to keep some functions unavailable for some users, simply as a safety net.  But it isn't intended to be draconian.    By which I mean, if someone calls into tech serve because they are locked off a system, we aren't going to ask for your mother's maiden name, who your first grade teacher was or what the name of your dog is, before giving you the password.      

Also, to make it easier for you, we can make it so that devices always "log in".... so, if you wanted to setup (for example) an RVI for user v, and that user has no access to editing or record functions, you could make it so that the device automatically logs in upon startup (again, to use a facebook analogy, I've told facebook to remember me, so I'm automatically logged on).  Or, it could be setup that you need to enter your user ID and your password (like I have to do for online banking) each time the device powers up.   If you use the first version, you'd be able to control what can be done from various devices, without needing to worry about entering ID and passwords each time a device is powered up.

:-)

a

As a designer who works in mostly in university theatre, the need to lock out the edit/record function is very necessary. I always save the show to a 2 datasticks after the last preview. One stick stays with me and the other with the theatre's (paid) technician. You just can't believe how students can "oops" a show..especially the nervous ones. Hard to believe that a desk like the EOS, which is being used more and more on Broadway, doesn't have the ability to allow the show to be frozen.

I can believe how a student can "oops" a show, but can also understand how education can prevent that from happening.

University is a place of education and so the student operators there should learn what it is like in the industry. I never got into the "oops" situation when I was at college and that is *entirely* down to my educators.

There are many differences between Broadway and university theatres - and a Broadway-capable lighting desk is not necessarily suitable for university students who don't have the support mechanism available to be there when "oops" happens. However, university students are usually capable of receiving well-directed instruction.

Although "board opping" is quite an easy skill to learn, it is not necessarily an easy skill to teach. It is all our duties to train board-ops upon whom we can trust. My most trusted board-op is only fifteen years old - and I would trust him to a very large extent on a commercial show. It is all in the educations, not the limitation.

georgeg said:

...Hard to believe that a desk like the EOS, which is being used more and more on Broadway, doesn't have the ability to allow the show to be frozen.

How many "Broadway" consoles in the past had (or used) a "record lockout" feature?  Light Palette? Performer? Obsession? Hog? grandMA?  (As said above,) What if a moving light is replaced, and the new one not hung EXACTLY where/how the old one was, and the palettes need to be updated?

I don't know how many consoles have had a Record Lockout feature, but I do know for sure that we would *never ever* lock a show on Broadway.  Too much can change on a daily basis, and it's up to the electricians to make whatever adjustments are necessary to maintain the intent of the design!

However, that is certainly not to say that there aren't applications where locking the showfile from any changes is a critical feature.

As for inexperienced operators accidentally messing with my shows, I gotta say I am much more likely to screw up my own file doing last minute notes before I leave than any mortal light board operator ever is!

"I gotta say I am much more likely to screw up my own file doing last minute notes before I leave than any mortal light board operator ever is!"

Yep - same problem here, and so now I train my board operators to be better board ops than I am!

David_Hately said:

Although "board opping" is quite an easy skill to learn, it is not necessarily an easy skill to teach. It is all our duties to train board-ops upon whom we can trust. My most trusted board-op is only fifteen years old - and I would trust him to a very large extent on a commercial show. It is all in the educations, not the limitation.

Fully agree with quote above!  I'm TD at a High School Theatre using the most up-to-date technology as of 2009! My first interaction with ANY person interested in our theatre program is to show them the equipment they 'might' have access to and tell them the price. It's amazing how well it works as a deturent. As for my techies I train them how to use the Technology and Give them my phone number to call when they have questions. I get calls frequently while on stage working from the light or sound op 70 feet away asking for help casue everyone is talking to loud.

Our program is based on "Professionalism in an eduicational setting" Anyone not willing to abide is introduced to the Athletic Director as a future Athletic Star not Theatrical Star!

I agree, I would never want to lock a show file so that it couldn't be changed.

But in our case we would want to restrict the ability of various users to be able to do certain functions from devices other than the 'main' console used by the programmer/operator, such as the multiple clients that we can have on a system on RVIs, laptops etc, which sounds just like what is coming.

Thanks Anne!

Well, a spirited discussion. Anne, I'm glad that you're looking at adding the security features. As an aside to one commenter who asked what boards have this function to some extent, The Strand 500 series has "memory lock", which is, of course, exactly what I'm asking for. On the HOG you can lock the editor, and on the grandMA you can lock the desk and assign various editing abilities, including no edit/record to various users; it's all there in the manuals. As to the assertion that all it takes is a proper education, well, better the student be required to ask permission to make changes than not; and like it or not accidents can happen. Locking a show doesn't mean changes cant be made, of course they can, by the people with the permissions to; and really, how often are students left completely on their own? The venue tech is almost always near by. I know that a locked booth door goes along way, but with the advent of remotes, backup, clients, iphone apps etc., I see nothing wrong with being able to control who does what when. Another commenter mentioned that sometimes it's he himself who screws up...nice to be able to have to type in your password to unlock that record button...makes you think twice yes?  . ETC desks have never had security features and I will be glad when they finally do.

Actually, Obsession 2 had security log in..... and the older desks had a hard record lock function.

:-)

a

Just to toss one more comment into this thread.... George, you mentioned that no ETC desk has ever had security features... There was one feature on the Express/ion series. There was a record lockout. While there was no password to turn this on or off, it was a quick and simple way to prevent simple mistakes from happening. The Eos/Ion partially does this by letting you lock pallets. I love this feature as I know personally when I am in a time crunch mixing colors for LED's, I would often hit update without really thinking and ended up trashing some of my CP's. While I know there are people out there who want the user level / function access permissions, I know I would be happier even just being able to lock a cue list. 

The MA has similar functionality with Sequences. Yes you can go and assign user level permissions, but there is also just the global "Lock Sequ X" which prevents you from changing the cue list, but lets you still update focus pallets etc...

Just my 2 cents.

oops

oops

oops...what a brain burp...of course the express line has record lock...I've only been using an express 48/96 for some 10 years!!

Anne,

Is Security Log In part of the latest Ion release? I think I'm running v1.4.0 from mid 2008. I have multiple board ops and want to limit their access.

Thanks.