Using Sneak

Hi,

That's what it should do. You made 33 non-manual, so you were sneaking it to the value you had given it. I'm not sure why you needed to clear the manual values first. If you had done a Go To Cue channel 33 would have been restored to the intensity stored in the cue

Hope that helps

Cheers

Dan

Hi Dan,

Sneak in the 1.7 manual says this;

"The [Sneak] command (when a destination is not provided) removes manual changes from selected channels and allows the channels to sneak back to their background states (cue or submaster instruction, if any)."

Therefore I assumed the command would look up everything the unit was supposed to be doing at that moment and put it all back regardless of what I'd done but that didn't happen, the intensity sat resolutely at zero. 33 had tracked through the cue where I was working so there wasn't a specific move instruction for the desk to look up but it does say 'background state' in the description above so I would expect it to come back in using Sneak.

There is no mention in any of the release notes of sneak changing from this description in any later release so that's what I expected to happen.

Hi,

It's right there in the quote you gave...

oovis said:

"The [Sneak] command (when a destination is not provided) removes manual changes from selected channels and allows the channels to sneak back to their background states (cue or submaster instruction, if any)."

It 'removes manual changes'. By doing [Shift] [Sneak] before hand you're removing manual changes from the channel, it is no longer manual.

Currently if you edited a channels value in blind and sneaked it you would still get the played back value rather than the new values (this is due to be fixed), however I still wouldn't expect values that I had chosen to make non-manual to be sneak-able.

Cheers

Dan

Hmm.. well it's a bit confusing then because I would have thought anything I do would be a manual change (including [Shift] [Sneak]) and I would expect, from the description in the manual, that [Sneak] would just put things back where they should be. It does say the channels go back to their background state which should have been at full (according to the tracked cue).

Yes, I could have gone to the cue but I expected the sneak function to be a little more elegant - especially if I'd changed various units and only wanted one of them to come back..

I may be wrong, but I think where you're having trouble is [Shift] [Sneak].

I'm not quite sure you understand what it does, I can't understand in your example why you did [Shift] [Sneak] in the first place. Manual vs 'Unmanual' is about the state of a channel and whether it will be included in record operations. The whole point of [Shift] [Sneak] is to remove manual values for a channel. By definition then that channel is no longer manual, so it sneaking it won't work, those are its new 'background' values.

Is that any help?

Dan

Hi Dan,

I assumed [Shift] [Sneak] was the new key press to replace [Clear] [Enter] and I think the definition of 'background' is what's tripping me up here. I understand it to be what the desk would have done if I hadn't touched anything. If that's not the case then it's confusing.

My [Shift] [Sneak] was to get rid of the red zero on the channel, therefore removing the manual value, to allow it to go back to where I expected it to be when I tried to sneak it back, namely the value programmed in the cue sequence.

If the sneak function won't allow me to alter stuff on the fly, move on to other changes, drop other things and then put the first channel back to where it should have been then it's not intuitive and will keep tripping me up. I still can't remember which comands need [Delete] at the start of the command and which allow it at the end so maybe that and sneak need a Teatime Tutorial?

I'm just across the river from you at The Novello, maybe we could meet up at some point?..

oovis said:

My [Shift] [Sneak] was to get rid of the red zero on the channel, therefore removing the manual value, to allow it to go back to where I expected it to be when I tried to sneak it back, namely the value programmed in the cue sequence. 

Sneak Enter is likely what you want in this case -- Shift+Sneak is a "make this un-manual" function, while Sneak Enter is a "return to background state" function. 

You would use Shift+Sneak to keep a light as it currently is.  It treats its current value as the background value.

Sneak Enter returns the light to its background value - changing levels to whatever the next source in line is - whether that be a cue, submaster, or home value.

oovis said:

My [Shift] [Sneak] was to get rid of the red zero on the channel, therefore removing the manual value, to allow it to go back to where I expected it to be when I tried to sneak it back, namely the value programmed in the cue sequence. 

Sneak Enter is likely what you want in this case -- Shift+Sneak is a "make this un-manual" function, while Sneak Enter is a "return to background state" function. 

You would use Shift+Sneak to keep a light as it currently is.  It treats its current value as the background value.

Sneak Enter returns the light to its background value - changing levels to whatever the next source in line is - whether that be a cue, submaster, or home value.

Thanks, Hans

I'm not back at work until Monday to try that but I'll give it a go. The Beta software was installed by the latest programmer in our venue but there's little information available for it. 

If  do make something un-manual how do I get that channel back to where it's supposed to be in a subtle manner?

To retore a channel to it's background value after you have hit [Shift] & [Sneak], type

<Chans x> [Assert] [Cue] [Enter] 

This will, unsurprisingly, assert the stored value of the channel, regardless of whether or not the value is a move or a tracked value.

I know the [Shift] & [Sneak] feature existed on the Strand 500, but I don't see any value in it. This purposely puts the desk into a state where the values (and colors) are lying to you. I, for one, would prefer to get rid of this feature altogether, and replace [Shift] & [Sneak] with something else more useful... and less deceitful.

-M