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    Andrew Riter
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Lustr 2 vs Colorsource Spot questions round 2

Hi again.

More time to type today.

 

So between the Colorsource and the Lustr series 2, which I had in my venue for a couple of hours, I've got some remaining questions that the sales tech couldn't answer.

**Both units have a great hard edge. sometimes softening the focus is a little hit or miss as compared to an incandescent, but some R132 should help that.  we were shooting with a 19deg barrel.

**The low end dimming is great, and the units don't WINK out.  Good job ETC

**The Coloursource has a much cooler white light when at full, (but the Lustr2 was only in 1 profile, adn I didn't get a chance to play with the other settings). 

1) he didn't have the Soft Focus Diffuser.  While that works with gobos (I'm told), will it remove the colour shadows you get (where you can see a green shadow edge, and a blue shadow edge, and a red shadow edge, all from the same person and lamp?

2) It was a demo console being used, so I didn't get too deep into it to make set-up changes.  Do the Lustr 2 and/or the Colorsource cut to different colours in Time 0?  or do they always fade?

3) teh Colorsource doesn't terminate the DMX run, and so it needs terminators.  Is the Lustr Self Terminating?

4) There are different profiles/personalities for the Lustr 2.  Are there different profiles for the Colorsource?

5) I can set it up so I can control the fan on the Luster (Y/N)?

(I've patched a dummy Lustr on the console, in a random profile (RGBStr Fan +7), and can see a fan control, but without testing each profile (and SOOO many profiles), I'm not clear on what is capable with each profile.

5.1) Can I set up teh Colorsource the same, so I have control of the fan, or is the fan ALWAYS controlled by the lamp itself, and will run up or down as required?

6) the CRI for the Lustr 2 is either 86/90 (depending on what you set it at).  what's the CRI for the Coloursource?

7) are the units "flicker-free" for filming?

8) max lumin output for the lustr is 5800.  what is it for the Coloursource?

9) I can't find the User Manual for the Coloursource on the ETC website.  Just teh quick guide and installation guide.

10) Does a regular barn door fit on a colour source par?

11) does a regular barn door fit on a fresnel adaptor for the Lustr or Coloursource?

11.5)  what is the frame size for the fresnel adaptors?

12) (Running Ion 2.3.1) how can I determine which colours are not possible by using the software?  I can see the IEC triangle, and the Visible spectrum cone.

13) I won't be buying the EDLT lenses, but using the regular lenses.  However, how bad are the regular 50deg lenses compared to the LED 50deg lenses?  (or, do I REALLY need to purchase some specific 50deg lenses for the LED units?)

 

Thanks to those who take the time to answer.  I've read a bunch of the documents on line, but I haven't found all the answers yet.

Andrew

Parents

  • Hi Andrew,

    Here are the answers to your questions hopefully its everything you need if not let me know

    1) Yes the soft focus diffuser will help clear up this problem if you have no gobo and put the fixture into a soft focus. 

    2) The fade you are seeing is probably the setup within the fixture. The curve in the Lustr 2 can be changed so it may have been in a curve to mimic tungsten so will fade when you expect it to snap even if the desk is set to 0 time.

    3) The Lustr is self-Terminating

    4) No the colour Source only has 1 profile (Intensity/Red/Green/Blue/Strobe)

    5) The Fan control is optional so which ever mode you set the fixture up in this can be changed (Auto/Low/High/DMX) Auto will turn the fan on when its required otherwise it will be off, Low and High will keep the fan at a constant speed, and DMX will allow you to control from the desk. 

    On the console you will see lots of modes some with Fan some without for depending on if you have the fan setting on DMX or not. The strobe can also be toggled to DMX control or OFF.

    5.1) The Fan is always control by the fixture and will adjust as required.

    6) I am finding this out and will follow up.

    7) The Lustr’s frequency can be adjusted between 920Hz and 1500Hz then it can be set to 25000Hz for Camera if required. The Colour Source can be set to 1200 or 25000Hz

    8) The Lumens will depend on the lens on the unit but all the values can be found on this PDF - http://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737481553

    9) The Installation Guide has all the information there is about how to setup the fixture.

    10) The 190mm barndoors from the source 4 fresnel will fit this fixture but it probably wont work as well as you hope as there is still 7 sources from the front of the fixture so you might get some extra shadows.

    11) The 190mm barndoors from the source 4 fresnel will fit the Fresnel adaptor and will work just like a normal Fresnel bardoor.

    11.5) 190mm

    12) The only mode which the console will show you its colour range is in direct mode as it doesn’t use the calibration data within the fixture. All the other modes use the calibration within the fixtures so they will mix the colour you select depending on what it knows it can achieve when it left the factory. (This might mean each fixture makes the same colour with a slightly different mix of LEDs

    13) You will only notice the standard 50 degree lenses if you have them completely open and slightly out of focus. If you have a Gobo or all the shutters in slightly you will not notice a difference.

    Hope this answers most of your questions.

    Tom

Reply

  • Hi Andrew,

    Here are the answers to your questions hopefully its everything you need if not let me know

    1) Yes the soft focus diffuser will help clear up this problem if you have no gobo and put the fixture into a soft focus. 

    2) The fade you are seeing is probably the setup within the fixture. The curve in the Lustr 2 can be changed so it may have been in a curve to mimic tungsten so will fade when you expect it to snap even if the desk is set to 0 time.

    3) The Lustr is self-Terminating

    4) No the colour Source only has 1 profile (Intensity/Red/Green/Blue/Strobe)

    5) The Fan control is optional so which ever mode you set the fixture up in this can be changed (Auto/Low/High/DMX) Auto will turn the fan on when its required otherwise it will be off, Low and High will keep the fan at a constant speed, and DMX will allow you to control from the desk. 

    On the console you will see lots of modes some with Fan some without for depending on if you have the fan setting on DMX or not. The strobe can also be toggled to DMX control or OFF.

    5.1) The Fan is always control by the fixture and will adjust as required.

    6) I am finding this out and will follow up.

    7) The Lustr’s frequency can be adjusted between 920Hz and 1500Hz then it can be set to 25000Hz for Camera if required. The Colour Source can be set to 1200 or 25000Hz

    8) The Lumens will depend on the lens on the unit but all the values can be found on this PDF - http://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737481553

    9) The Installation Guide has all the information there is about how to setup the fixture.

    10) The 190mm barndoors from the source 4 fresnel will fit this fixture but it probably wont work as well as you hope as there is still 7 sources from the front of the fixture so you might get some extra shadows.

    11) The 190mm barndoors from the source 4 fresnel will fit the Fresnel adaptor and will work just like a normal Fresnel bardoor.

    11.5) 190mm

    12) The only mode which the console will show you its colour range is in direct mode as it doesn’t use the calibration data within the fixture. All the other modes use the calibration within the fixtures so they will mix the colour you select depending on what it knows it can achieve when it left the factory. (This might mean each fixture makes the same colour with a slightly different mix of LEDs

    13) You will only notice the standard 50 degree lenses if you have them completely open and slightly out of focus. If you have a Gobo or all the shutters in slightly you will not notice a difference.

    Hope this answers most of your questions.

    Tom

Children
  • in reply to tom mcguire
    Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I appreciate the time you put into it.

    Andrew
  • in reply to tom mcguire

    tom mcguire said:

     

    2) The fade you are seeing is probably the setup within the fixture. The curve in the Lustr 2 can be changed so it may have been in a curve to mimic tungsten so will fade when you expect it to snap even if the desk is set to 0 time.

    [Andrew]  I get that the Coloursource only has 1 profile (nice and simple that way).  I've always had issues (concerns) when rental gear comes in, and I look through the Patch profiles, and there are so many to choose from within certain devices.  As a novice DMX Device user, it's always tough to sort out which profile will work best in a particular application, especially when the client renting my venue (or AV supplier company) doesn't know either.

    Can anyone else verify that the Lustr 2 can snap out in a Time 0 (and not an incandescent Time 0 fade out)?

    Can anyone verify that the Coloursource will only fade out in a time 0 (incandescent-like) and not wink out for musical effects?

    (maybe it appears that I'm looking for the best of both worlds:  nice smooth theatrical fade-outs, even from top to bottom, AND the abillity to blink the unit on and off for the music industry (not strobe, per se, but where a theatrical fade is actual a Time 1, and a snap out is a digital Time 0 out).  I'm just looking to understand the limitations/expectations for the equipment I'm asking my boss to shell out a lot of money for. )

     

    6) I am finding this out and will follow up.

    [Andrew]  any word on what the CRI of the Coloursource is?

     

    7) The Lustr’s frequency can be adjusted between 920Hz and 1500Hz then it can be set to 25000Hz for Camera if required. The Colour Source can be set to 1200 or 25000Hz


    The Coloursource has only 1 profile.  how does the user modify the flicker rate?  (I've read the installation guide in leiu of any manual on line, and it is not indicated).

    9) The Installation Guide has all the information there is about how to setup the fixture.

    [Andrew] it doesn't include flicker rate, or updating the software, but for that I saw a note about calling tech support in a Release note.

     

    Hope this answers most of your questions.

    Tom
    [Andrew:]  thanks again.

  • in reply to Andrew Riter

    Regarding 0 time color and intensity moves on ETC LED products:

    You have two options on the Series 1 and Series 2 units:

    1) Enable smoothing in the fixture, and all of your moves (even zero-count moves) will have a bit of a fade on them.  This is a different setting than the tungsten emulation, which adds redshift to the smoothing effect.

    2) Disable smoothing, and you'll be able to blink between colors and intensities, but you'll also deal with some steepness in longer fades.

    Many of us (myself included) have asked for a DMX channel to turn smoothing on and off on a per-cue basis, but I don't know if that's on the roadmap.

    With the ColorSource series, smoothing is always enabled.

    Regarding CRI, I personally don't use CRI as a meaningful statistic for comparing LED sources.  There are lots of ways that great fixtures might fail at the CRI test, and many ways that manufacturers might game the system to artificially inflate their CRI readings.  The Color Source is a great line if you can deal with the limited range of saturated blues, and if you don't mind that you can't control the lime emitter directly.  I'd trust your eyes in your demo much more than I'd try to compare CRI numbers.

  • in reply to Paul Toben
    Thanks to Paul and Rick for their replies.
    I've got another coloursource in while demoing an Altman Phoenix and an Elation Colour 5. with the Coloursource patched to my console (manual fade time set to 0), it actually went out in a time of 0 (more like an LED wink out). that's fine. If I need a Time 0 Out to match the incandescents, I'll just time the Coloursource for a 1 sec out to match.

    I did find it interesting that the Elation has a better contrast in a gobo image (the black is blacker), but couldn't get a consistent sharpness over the gobo, centre to outside. the Fan was noisier than the Colour source.

    mind you, it's a 36 deg Elation lens and a 26 deg coloursource lens in a 15' throw. They are swappable between units (the barrels fit in the other bodies), but I don't think the photometric designs are swappable. It worked, but the image wasn't as good as with the unit's own lens.

    The Phoenix is REALLY bright, but colour shifts across the field, centre to outside. The fan was noisier than the Colour source and elation. 10 lbs heavier too.

    Your mileage may vary will different demo models.
    Andrew
  • in reply to Andrew Riter
    According to their website the fan cooled Altman Phoenix is a 250w fixture, that's over 100w more than the ColorSource engine so I'd hope it was bright!
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