New Laptop

Take this info as my opinion, and by no means an endorsement from ETC Service saying this will work....

Saying that, I've experimented with a few Netbooks and our software. I tried the Dell and Acer models, and I didn't have any problem running NEWER ETC software. By newer I mean it worked with my limited use of GCE, Dimstat, and the Sensor Connect (Web Browser) worked with the installed version of IE.

It really depends on your needs. If your doing new installations only, a Netbook would 'probably' work.. I can't see a reason why Paradigm light designer wouldn't work, or even the console clients. (I think I saw the EOS client running on one). Now older stuff is a problem.  NCE will be an issue, as they do not usually put XP Professional on these netbooks. Also classic Unison Light Manager --may-- work, but if you do anything with CMei's it certainly will have problems. Going even further back, the SLTA manager I'm sure will not work.

The Dell was actually a really nice unit. The Acer kind of looked more like a 'my first computer', but was very functional. Now each one I used had XP on it. I understand Microsoft is coming out with a new operating system for these netbooks, that essentially cripples features (Gotta love 'em), so they can sell windows on these cheap units and still make money. Linux is starting to hurt them in this cheap market. There is no saying what this crippled version will do to the operation of our software. So buy carefully, and probably sooner than later, or expect to have to buy there 'Upgrade' they are planning on offering to a full version of Vista.

Costco has a few netbooks, and has a 90 day return policy on electronics. It wouldn't be a bad way to see if it meets you needs.

Let us know how it goes if you jump in! I'd love to hear how it turns out, as I see this as a fast growing market in computers.

Mike Skurla

Take this info as my opinion, and by no means an endorsement from ETC Service saying this will work....

Saying that, I've experimented with a few Netbooks and our software. I tried the Dell and Acer models, and I didn't have any problem running NEWER ETC software. By newer I mean it worked with my limited use of GCE, Dimstat, and the Sensor Connect (Web Browser) worked with the installed version of IE.

It really depends on your needs. If your doing new installations only, a Netbook would 'probably' work.. I can't see a reason why Paradigm light designer wouldn't work, or even the console clients. (I think I saw the EOS client running on one). Now older stuff is a problem.  NCE will be an issue, as they do not usually put XP Professional on these netbooks. Also classic Unison Light Manager --may-- work, but if you do anything with CMei's it certainly will have problems. Going even further back, the SLTA manager I'm sure will not work.

The Dell was actually a really nice unit. The Acer kind of looked more like a 'my first computer', but was very functional. Now each one I used had XP on it. I understand Microsoft is coming out with a new operating system for these netbooks, that essentially cripples features (Gotta love 'em), so they can sell windows on these cheap units and still make money. Linux is starting to hurt them in this cheap market. There is no saying what this crippled version will do to the operation of our software. So buy carefully, and probably sooner than later, or expect to have to buy there 'Upgrade' they are planning on offering to a full version of Vista.

Costco has a few netbooks, and has a 90 day return policy on electronics. It wouldn't be a bad way to see if it meets you needs.

Let us know how it goes if you jump in! I'd love to hear how it turns out, as I see this as a fast growing market in computers.

Mike Skurla

Mike-

Thanks for your opinion.  I fully intend on keeping my existing Dell around for things like older software, just like I still keep my even older Win98 machine around for the config software on some systems that still needs a true DOS component in the OS.  I was thinking of this primarily for new installs and new service work.  

I am also thinking that the netbook designation is a bit muddled at the moment.  My inital looks on the net have seen books labeled as Netbooks that might be better designated ultra-portables, and some Netbooks that should probably be considered PDAs.  Netbook as a description does seem pretty broad right now.  I don't plan on getting one running Windows CE or whatever other compact version of Windows that Microsoft puts out.   If I jump soon, I'm still  looking at getting a machine with XP SP2 on it, or if I wait, it'll be Windows 7 that I look at trying.  

Also thanks for letting me know what software you've tried.

If anyone else out there has tried this I'd be curious to know your experiences as well.

Something to keep in mind for the legacy software:  You can also create virtual machines on your laptop. I bought VMWare workstation, but I have heard others use the free Microsoft Virtual PC.   I have VM installations of MS-DOS and Windows 98SE.  The virtualization software does the translation to your hardware for the virtual OS.  This has allowed me to use DOS tools with my USB-to-RS232 adapter.  The virtual OS sees it as a built-in COM port.  It has also allowed me to talk to UPSAC's via the old versions of the RS3232 Unison jacks and to CEM's with my old style SLTA.  I will warn you to back up your virtual machines to an external source.  Sometimes the VM's get corrupted by system tools such as defrag utilities.

I've thought about using a virtual machine, but in the few instances I've seen of folks doing that, it usually caused more troubles for them (possibly due to the VM's getting corrupt,) and I don't mind leaving a few machines around to run the older OS's near my desk.  As I said, I still have a Win98 machine ready for those few (and getting fewer,) systems that need either DOS or don't run within the XP framework.  Not only that, I'd have to scrounge up a full install copy of Win98.  The few CD's I still have around were the restoration CD's for some vintage HP Brios that were in our shop many moons ago.

Besides, every time Microsoft decides to change the OS, I'll likely need to create yet another VM, and add that much more possible complexity.

The more I've looked, it appears that going the netbook or ultraportable route may end up limiting me in other ways that I don't care for (at the office, running some visualizations, etc,) so I'll likely just get a larger laptop again .  Now if they can just make a 48" wide screen laptop that folds down into a backpack size case for transport, I'd be in heaven.  :)

My experience with the netbooks is that the ram and video are too slow.  At the same time I know people who are perfectly happy with the netbook.  Word of caution...Get XP. 

P-

I just picked up a new HP Mini 5101 ($425) 3-weeks ago and have been happy with its overall performance but there are some things to keep in mind.

It is light but the screen is small…you might find it annoying to work on larger Paradigm configurations.

I got a 6-cell battery and got about 5 hours out of it…many units do not come with the 6-cell

If getting an Intel processor make sure it is the newer: Intel Atom N280 not the N270

Many netbooks max out at 2gig of RAM…mine only came with 1MB but it was a cost thing

Netbooks do not tend to come with any sort of drive (No floppy, no CD-ROM)….plenty of USB ports...So you will need to get an USB drive to load stuff onto the unit

My 2 cents

Mike

Thanks for your input Mike.

Did your machine come with XP or are you running Vista?

Again, I'm looking at this as a replacement for mostly newer systems, where I'm potentially dealing with smaller Paradigm/Sensor+ systems and Net3 Gateways.  I'll probably still keep my existing machine around for older Unison and Sensor Classic systems.  As far as editing large Paradigm configs, I haven't gotten to what I'd consider Large yet, but I already gripe about how much info I need to display on my widescreen, and how much I feel I am missing, so I imagine I'll gripe about the small screen already as well.  I do like how LightDesigner does allow you to move and resize the various boxes to your preference, and the main room area can be scaled, so I imagine I'll do okay.

I will check out the HP Mini though.

Thanks again.

For clarification I need to point out that Neither Paradigm LightDesigner or GCE are currently supported on Vista or Netbook hardware. There has not been any testing conducted to this point on either. Now with that said, I can tell you both programs run fairly well in Vista, but you may have some issues and unexpected crashes, that cannot be explained and you would need to work through these with little support. We do not currently have any plans to test these applications in Vista, but have chosen to move testing efforts in Wndows7 forward.

I should also point out that currently there is not a single Net book on the market that meets the minimum requirements to Run LightDesigner. You may not have an issue running it but I wouldn’t expect it to be flawless fi you get it running. You will want to be sure the graphics card in the Net book you consider supports OpenGL (and last I looked very few did), or it won't run at all. The Atom processor is also a bit under powered for the taska t hand. I would expect a fair amount of frustration with the resolution when running Unison configuration software. The minimum recommended resolution is 1024x786, but even this is quite limiting to the amount you can display.

Bryan Palmer

Thanks again for the input.  I'll have to check again the minimum requirements for LightDesigner, and make sure I look at what's out there.

I'm still casting about to see what's out there, and fully intend to keep my existing laptop as my "Primary" machine, while experimenting with the netbook as an alternate machine if it works.  Otherwise, they're cheap enough that I may leave the netbook as a machine for work stuff, but not for system configuration/install.

Dennis.