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    Jeff Toussieng
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touring cues

I am doing a drama tour. We use what each venue has for lighting and I add in whatever is needed to complete the show. Therefore since each venue is different we have to reprogram cues at each one.

All of the cue numbers and the text associated with them remain the same, just the content changes. However of course even some of that stays the same depending on what we need to add. I try to keep the channels the same for the added fixtures so those fixtures will always show up the same.

Of course I also have to repatch each show however as mentioned, I try to keep the channels the same whenever possible.

So my question is what is the best way to update each cue? I have been using update however I know show files can start getting polluted with stuff that is no longer used but still present somewhere.

Not sure if deep clear is a suggestion after the cues are updated.

  • It may not be the best way but a convenient way is to do most of the work with patch and proportional park.

    Always start with a common (base) show file instead of the last show file you used. If you make changes that you want to become part of the show then update the base show file.

    In patch, the copy feature has modifiers (plus show, only show) to add a new channel to all the record targets (cues, presets, palettes, etc). It can be handy when adding fixtures to washes, larger cycs, and the like but can get you into trouble with specials.

    Proportional park can be used to balance levels for the entire the show without changing any levels in the cues.

    It's also possible to patch using multiple parts; the channel number stays the same everywhere it is referenced but multiple outputs are sent the data. It's possible to set a different intensity curve on each part if you are adding fixtures but need to balance them independently.

    The new multi-cell feature may open up a new way to do some of these tricks since the cells can have some degree of independence but also get a master channel.

    Deep clear doesn't clean up a show file, it just purges whatever is cached in memory.

  • As someone working in a roadhouse with a rep plot, we do these shows all of the time.
    Unless you're using a different manufacturer's console that day, there is no reason to take that show file and use it at the next venue.
    Always keep a master file and update each venue from that.
    This will allow you to keep closer to the original vision and like you said, each venue has different fixtures. Using that copy at the next venue is not a step forward. That how artefacts get perpetuated.
    . . . . Unless the actors change the show week to week.
    (Does that help any?)
  • in reply to Wuz314159
    Pretty much behind the average person when it comes to learning new things quickly so I apologize that I have not caught on to these suggestions. What I am hoping for at least is that I have explained my situation properly.

    Every venue is the exact same show "Godspell" and all the same performers and all the same props. The special effects I use are always mine; Geyser for volcano, Chauvet Hex for waterfall coloring, rotating beacon for Star Wars video, etc. Therefore all those items come on and go off with all the same colors when necessary for every presentation in every cue they are used and they keep the same channels.
    What changes is how to light the performance areas. They might only have conventionals; pars, lekos, etc. and I have to add my movers and led's for color. They might have led's but not covering all the areas so I have to add mine. They might have sufficient lighting to do everything and all I need to do is add the effects like Volcano, Waterfall and Beacon.
    Each cue contains my note like a specific line by a performer or start of a song including the script page number for reference which is my reference when to activate the cue. Again, that never changes. There are always the same number of cues and at the same locations in the script.
    So I think what I am getting so far is I need to make a show file with all 50+ cues, recording each cue with absolutely no fixture data, only the text of each cue and the cue number and that would be my base?
    If that is correct then not sure where to go from there. Get the cue look up then either do a update cue or record cue and when done save that show file as that venue name, then I would always have the "base" file for the next venue to start from?

    I apologize but I'm not familiar at all with proportional park and don't follow what multi-part patching would do in my case.
  • in reply to Jeff Toussieng
    Ok I think what people are suggesting you do is assuming you have a complete show file that works for one venue. Use this as your base show for each future venue.

    Then when you go to another venue, dont touch the cues, just go to the patch and repatch the channels to the actual fixtures in the venue. ie just type in the actual DMX address and fixture type for the fixture you are going to use.

    In some cases you might have one channel in the show that you want to drive 3 lamps at the venue, that's where the multipart comes in say you have channel 162 patched to one fixture in your standard show, you can type 162 Part 2 @ xxx and then 162 Part 3 @ yyy to patch all three lamps onto the same channel.

    The comment about proportional park is you can tell the desk to scale the intensity when sending to a fixture so if the fixture is a lot brighter than the one in your base show you can scale it down.

    You'd then need to deal with colour issue eg if they are all conventionals with fixed gels you may have some work to do if the show is all LED.

    Does that clarify it?
  • in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Jeff Toussieng said:
    So I think what I am getting so far is I need to make a show file with all 50+ cues, recording each cue with absolutely no fixture data, only the text of each cue and the cue number and that would be my base?
    If that is correct then not sure where to go from there. Get the cue look up then either do a update cue or record cue and when done save that show file as that venue name, then I would always have the "base" file for the next venue to start from?

    No.

    Record your show like normal.

    That way you know Q32 has your Cool Sides in channels 71-74 at 60%

    That way when you get to the venue with only one channel of side lights, You can patch them into channel 71 & the show data will have it at 60%.

    Then you can up the levels if needs be, but you know what level it's supposed to be at from the show file as a reference.

    But the next venue, where they have Colorsource Spots as side lights, you'll need to add all of the NPs to your channels.... but you don't need to keep that data as none of your other venues have CS Spots for side lights.

    Also, There's no best practises, but typically an LED fixture will be 1 fixture:1 channel. So if you have multiple fixtures in one channel in your show file, allow room for venues with LEDs in your patch.

    e.g. If you have 8× cool sides in channel 71-74, don't start warm sides in channel 75 because some venues will need to fill 8 channels with 8 warm side fixtures. It's not the channel numbers that matter, it's only the number of channels you use that matters.

    (P.S. Groups are your friends here)

     

    So work from your master file, don't update after every venue.

    ....

    Most venues will have conventional fixtures and for them, your job will be easy.

    1 channel = 1 address = 1 dimmer (you know what I mean.)

    You throw in intelligent fixtures and you wind up with 10× more data and no two venues have the same fixtures.

    but if your base file is conventional based, you can add in the NPs. Intelligent data will never be the same in any two venues.

    (*Not including your own intelligent fixtures of course.)

     

    LPT: Write some macros for venues with intelligent fixtures. I have one macro that Querys patched channels, selects all LED fixtures, assigns them into a group, then builds Colour Palettes for those fixtures with my gel colours.

  • in reply to Wuz314159
    I am really missing something. Channels can stay the same but if one venue uses Chauvet Rogue R2 spots on channel 4 and another one uses Martin and the original show used Robe whatever fixtures then patching them into the same channels does nothing because they all have completely different parameters. Therefore when bringing up the cues the only things that will respond properly are those fixtures that ride from venue to venue with the show. Or am I missing something?
    Same with LED's. One type of fixture might be a simple RGB 3 or 4 channel fixture and another RGBAWUV 15 channel fixture. And each venue will often times have their fixtures running in different modes, even when they happen to share the same fixtures. I know I can change the modes then put them back, but this is what I am asking about when different fixtures are being used in different venues with the same cue numbers and notes.
    It's how to edit the show file each time without polluting it.
    Or do I just pollute it one time because I start with the first complete show file and edit only that one and save it as that file then the next venue open the original and edit that, etc.?
  • in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Jeff Toussieng said:
    Or do I just pollute it one time because I start with the first complete show file and edit only that one and save it as that file then the next venue open the original and edit that, etc.?

    You got it. That's what I would do.

  • in reply to Wuz314159

    Jeff Toussieng

    Or do I just pollute it one time because I start with the first complete show file and edit only that one and save it as that file then the next venue open the original and edit that, etc.?

    You got it. That's what I would do.

    When you save the modified file at each venue, add the venue name to the file so you don't mix them up (and in case you ever return to that venue).

  • in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Re

    Channels can stay the same but if one venue uses Chauvet Rogue R2 spots on channel 4 and another one uses Martin and the original show used Robe whatever fixtures then patching them into the same channels does nothing because they all have completely different parameters. Therefore when bringing up the cues the only things that will respond properly are those fixtures that ride from venue to venue with the show. Or am I missing something?
    Same with LED's. One type of fixture might be a simple RGB 3 or 4 channel fixture and another RGBAWUV 15 channel fixture. And each venue will often times have their fixtures running in different modes, even when they happen to share the same fixtures.

    If you change the fixture type in the patch then where parameters match it will work,  so the LEDs if the base show is using RGB LEDs of some sort then patching a completely different RGB lamp will work (obviously extra parameters wont be used so replacing a RGB PAR with a moving head RGB nothing will be set on the pan/tilt).

    Likewise with the Rogue R2 if the new venue's light has parameters named the same then they will carry through.

    If you are using Palettes by type then you have to do some work as the new type would need setting up even for similars (ie one RGB to another - you can macro that process to make it easier) but for changes like RGB to colour scroll/wheel you only have to do it in one place.

    As everyone has said keep you master good show unchanged and keep the mangled venue specific separate.

     

  • in reply to Jeff Toussieng

    Jeff Toussieng said:
    if one venue uses Chauvet Rogue R2 spots on channel 4 and another one uses Martin and the original show used Robe whatever fixtures then patching them into the same channels does nothing

    No.

    In addition to what Mike A. has said:

    1. Keeping the same channel numbers allows you to reuse your magic sheets without changing them.

    2. Keeping the same channel numbers allows you to reuse your groups without changing them.

    3. You want uniformity across your show files so you can remember channel numbers based on the positioning of the light.

  • in reply to John728
    Hey everyone. Thank you for all your help. I don't think I have communicated to you fully but definitely believe I got an answer that will work. I always did want to keep the channels the same. It was always the patch that changes. So I am going to create a base show that works with that equipment then each new venue I will open that base show and save it as the name of the new venue, just changing the patch info for correct equipment and of course having to tweak the focus and color pallets and the cues.
    That way I am not building new show files on top of show files on top of show files.
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