no intensity on cue faders

hello everybody,

thank u all for your replies.

like david already mentioned this is probably a function used mainly on events etc. 

the point is, i just need to have the intensity of the actual cue on that fader. 

i dont care about manual transitions, but i need more direct access on my cuelists 

for example i have a cuelist stored with a complex sequence with pan/tilt/intensity 

and i need to fade this in and out frequently on certain events that just happen.

in my eyes it is strange that i have faders with "no function" when the cue is played

i would like to have a option to use the faders as submasters for the intensitys of my active cues.

hope this makes sense...

mike

Hi Mike,

I totally agree - Int control via playback faders is on my wishlist, too.

Cheers, Markus

In this case you need to do the following:

 Record your cue. (eg cue n)

Then hit [Blind Sub n] - This selects your sub.

Then hit [group] [cue] n [enter] - this selects all your channels in that cue and puts the intensities to the level in that cue.

Now you control your intensities on a sub.

Hope that helps

Crispy

Hey all sorry for the long post in advance...I'm just trying to be clear. 

 Crispy,

 If we wanted to just make a sub that would be easy.  What we are looking for is:

 -Record Cuelist 1

-Load Cuelist 1 onto Fader 1

-Hit Go as you please, advancing through the cue list

-At any time, whether a cue is currently running or not, use the fade to control the overall intensity of any active cues in that cuelist. 

 Repeat this as necessary with multiple cue lists.

For example I could have a primary cuelist with stage looks on fader one, a cuelist that chased the various red channels of the 20 colorblazes around the room on fader two, and a cuelist on fader three that chases the blue channels, a list on 4 that controls focus points of my US moving lights, and a list on 5 that controls pan and tilt effects of my US movers.  With the fader controlling the overall intensity channels of the active cue in the list, at any time I can change the look on stage and the room in a very dynamic way.  I can run a show on the fly, with very little programming time and the show potentially running out of order, and achieve looks that would take hours to program in seconds, just by having some forethought and writing a bunch of "stock" chases, focus points and effects.  Of course the above scenario is a VERY basic run down...but gives you an idea of what's possible.  What's more I can write all of the effects and chases offline at home, and show up to have a really amazing show in just a couple of hours of tweaking.  This is exactly the scenario that I'm often in on corporate/industrial events or sales meetings, when I arrive, load in, and program in the same day, and then start a week long "show" first thing in the morning.  This allows the client to have their event in a more flexible manner, and retain the production value they would have if the event actually stuck to a script.

 This is the standard function on the Hog, the Maxxyz, and many other moving light desks, which is one of the things that makes those desks so useable for tv, concerts, etc.

Ok, guys.  Let's pull this back a bit.  Right now, the fader associated with the cue list controls:

 First --- any manual transitions recorded in the cue.

If there are no manual transitions in the cue, by default, the fader can override only the intensity (a change that we are making in 1.4 removes the "hold" attribute for a cue.  Transitions will be automatically held on the fader even after the fader has reached full).

If you use [Man Override] + [Load], you can control all of the parameters moving in the cue manually.

 What behavior are you looking for.  Sorry, its not quite clear to me. (Perhaps not enough coffee yet).....

;-)

 a 

Anne - can you clarify what removing the hold attribute will then allow the fader to do?

All that we're looking for is that the fader is an Intensity Grand Master, if you will, for any fixtures currently playing back in the cue currently running on the fader. 

Sure.  Couple of things here though.  Just to clarify exactly how the faders work.

Since the playback is a crossfader, the potentiometer is a manual override of the transition between the current cue and the incoming cue.  So, if you are sitting in cue 1, which has channel 1 at 50, and you are crossfading into cue 2, which sets channel 1 to zero, the fader is controlling the transition between those two looks.  If you grab the potentiometer, you can manually fade from the current value back down to zero on the fader (which sets channel 1 to 50) or to full on the fader, which sets channel 1 to zero.     Right now, unless you put a "hold" value on the cue, as soon as the cue is complete, the cue is "released" from the potentiometer.  This means that you can no longer effect the level of the cue with the potentiometer.  

We will remove "hold" in 1.4.  This will mean that even after the cue is complete, the potentiometer can continue to affect the active cue.   How that works will be based on three different variables.

If the cue had any manual timing values, those are the values that are "held" for control on the fader.  But again, its not a GM.... when you drop the fader down, you will be fading back to the value that the channel previously had (bear with me for a minute and I'll explain the why part of that).

If the cue did not have any manual timing, it is the intensity transitions that are "held".  Again, though, if you drop the fader, you will be going back to the previous cue values.

If you had overridden the cue using [Manual Override] and [Load] - all of the parameters moving in the cue are maintained and you can fade them manually back to their previous state.

Here's the reason that we made the faders work the way they do.  And this example is courtesy of John Featherstone... its the best one I know.  You have a base look on the stage.  You have another look that has a ballyhoo out into the audience.  You want to be able to manually fade your ballyhoo from the base look out into the audience as the CEO walks out.  And then as he returns, you want to fade the ballyhoo back in to the stage. so you are using the potentiometer to manually control the transitions back and forth between two different looks. You can see how this could apply to an intensity value as well.   

If you want the potentiometer to master the intensity as a GM.... and fading the value down then behaves in that manner, it seems that is an alternate behavior requirement.  FYI, we are adding non-intensity parameters on submasters in 1.4..... in that release, you can choose to have the intensity fade to zero when potentiometer is dropped, or have it return to the last LTP/HTP winner.  I think that will help.

Anyway... thoughts on that?

Anne 

Anne~

Hello. I hope this finds you well.

Im sitting here with Badger, we approve of your last comment....

We want the penome.... Fader thingy to act as a GM for the associated cue thats currently playing.

I COMPLETELY understand John's example, and yes, this would be an acceptable "chooseable feature".

Here's my example, I have cuelists set up on my faders... with different color washes in each one... I want to be able to adjust the intensity of the cue with the fader... this way... when the CEO walks up on stage I have a ballyhoo that runs in one cuelist... and in another cuelist i have a base look... I can simply fade up and down the fader to bring up the ballyhoo... its always running... the fader only affects intensity....  nothing else...  it doesnt advance the cue, it doesnt hold a cue, i dont have to apply a special "hold" to a cue etc....

M

Anne~

Hello. I hope this finds you well.

Im sitting here with Badger, we approve of your last comment....

We want the penome.... Fader thingy to act as a GM for the associated cue thats currently playing.

I COMPLETELY understand John's example, and yes, this would be an acceptable "chooseable feature".

Here's my example, I have cuelists set up on my faders... with different color washes in each one... I want to be able to adjust the intensity of the cue with the fader... this way... when the CEO walks up on stage I have a ballyhoo that runs in one cuelist... and in another cuelist i have a base look... I can simply fade up and down the fader to bring up the ballyhoo... its always running... the fader only affects intensity....  nothing else...  it doesnt advance the cue, it doesnt hold a cue, i dont have to apply a special "hold" to a cue etc....

M

I am going to have to agree with Matt on this one, I have gotten this as a request in the past. I don't think it would be a big deal if it was a user setting, " Faders as Masters" or something like that.

Thank you! 

Hey,

I've been hoping for effects on faders for the same reason.  I hadn't tried it but I had assumed I would be able to duplicate a step effect in a cue list and use the fader as an intensity master.  I would have been sad.  I don't use multiple cue lists much, but I certainly second the need for that capability to do as mentioned before, only I would be inclined to do it as an effect on a handle.  Either or both would make me happy.  I also want to choose between LTP and HTP.

cheers, B

Ok, guys - this all makes sense.  We can add an option (and this should be a cue list attribute) that lets the fader act as a master for intensities.... once the cue is complete.  I think the way it would have to work is that if while the cue is in motion, the fader works as it does now .... controlling the proportional difference between the start value and the end value. Once the cue is active, the fader could then act as an intensity master.  

 Brent, you can currently choose LTP/HTP at a cue list level, not at a cue/channel level.    Obsession had LTP/HTP options within an effect itself.  We haven't yet added that.... in some ways, we are waiting to see what happens with LTP NPS on submasters.

 So, going back to this proportional master/intensity master idea..... what do you all want to call this option?  Ideas always welcome.

Thanks.  Good discussion.

 a 

"I think the way it would have to work is that if while the cue is in motion, the fader works as it does now .... controlling the proportional difference between the start value and the end value. Once the cue is active, the fader could then act as an intensity master."

Anne, to be honest and 100% blunt, that wouldnt work for me, and wouldnt even be something I'd use... as I have a stack of looks or whatever that I want to be able to "punch" through with a GO button, at whatever level my fader is at... I record all my key light channels at full, and then ride them with the fader, while still being able to punch through them at the same level.  If the fader changed modes or whatever it did mid stream of the cue, then the cue would bounce to full and then back down to its level and that would be very weird.

For example... right now Im doing a corporate show with a cue stack of Key Lights, cue 1 has a DSC key, cue 2 is the stage wash etc etc etc... so I can pound through each cue I need, the timing is still executed via the cue timing, however this allows me to "ride" the level of the lighting, all the while being able to xfade between the various key lights I need. 

As far as naming the fader mode... I recommend calling it "Badger Style"

M
 

Understood.  Works totally fine with anything fading up.... just working out the math for anything that is a downfade - and if you grab it dynamically.  But you know what, our boy Duffy has to work that out.  And he claims he agrees with you.  So, there you have it.  Will think about "Badger Style".... not sure it'll fit on a softkey.  (And hey... .wait a minute.... didn't Mike start this thread?)

 :-) 

 a 

We LOVE the duffy.

""And hey... .wait a minute.... didn't Mike start this thread?""

Actually if you go to the instant replay this was on one of the lists I sent to ya WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY back during Ray and Matter of Honor....  ;)

M 

Ah, that's right!   You guys have commentary coming in so fast and furious it's hard to keep up (but please do keep it up)!  

Thanks much.... as always.

a 

hi all,

im happy to see this thread has come to the point and looking forward for future software releases !

;-)

i dont care about the name of this feature, (intensitymastermode?),  but i would love to see it in the default options !

btw i agree with abbydowning that this and some other features (e.g. highlight and fan buttons, more control over the effects engine, more information on the screens when working with hundreds of movinglights ...)

would sure open doors in a big event and live -market for the eos.

i think especially the rock solid network alowing to adress dozens of universes together with the user friendly interface would be a good alternative to competitors like gma/hog.

but this should be a new thread, i guess...

greets,

mike 

Mike, Fan and Highlight will both be in 1.4.  The effects package continues to be a work in progress, and probably will be for a long time to come.  

 I'm curious about the following:  "more information on the screens when working with hundreds of moving lights...."  what are you looking for?  

Thanks for the input!

 Anne 

In 1.4, the table view will be zoomable.  Also, in the table view, conventional fixtures will be represented in a tombstone view, not a column.  So, if you patch your show in a logical way, you will get more channels on the screen.  Will that help?

 a 

anne, now im really looking forward to 1.4 !

a zoomable table view would help a lot, but a "compressed view" could help even more. im thinking of a view without those nice borders and spaces (which normaly make the great look of the interface, no doubt !) and a smaller (scaleable?) font, containing a simple list of fixtures and values.

i also would like to switch between labels, values, and timing for the actual feature.          

i cant remember exactly how many fixtures are visible in the actual views, but i can remember the last job with the eon, we had about 260 movinglights, different types (which isnt soo much actualy) and it was always a bit of a pain to keep the overview...

hope that makes sense.

regards,

mike