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    gildebrand
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Some (big) ideas

Hi there!

I am a huge fan of the GrandMa desks, so my ideas to the Hog3 are kind of a copy of what the GrandMa already does. One thing that would be great are of you could have more options for the masters. Like being able to tap the rate of a chase. Or setting the rate and/or size of an effect running on the master. Also, it would be great to be able to have have more than one master per list, and use these for different parameters of the list. (Like executor size in GrandMa. As i said, very inspired)

I would also be able to put fixtures on the masters, for controling the intensity of these fixtures (instead of selecting and using encoders to program). I want to select a fixture, and then store it under a master, and then that master becomes a fader for that fixture (or group if so programmed). So this is similiar to a feature in GrandMa where the channels (not fixtures) is put on the faders, but with the difference that i my self can select which fixtures or groups to put on which faders, in which page. Would be absolutely great when programming ie theatre with a lot of dimmers.

I want a manual timing feature (to put on one of the masters). Also like the manual feature in GrandMa, but with the ability to pause everything before it's executed (so i click pause for the timing fader, do the changes in the programmer, select the fade time on the fader clicks "play", and then the thing in the programmer executes in the selected time).

And of coarse, all this in combination with a new playback wing with motorised faders, and quick buttons to access the different pages. That would make especially busking a lot better on the Hog3. (As for now i would never choose the Hog3 for busking, GrandMa is my no1 choice there)

Of coarse i don't want the Hog to become a GrandMa-desk, but these features would make this disk so much better.
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    So to summarize my requests:
    *A spread parameter for effects (Don't think i wrote this in my original post)
    Within the f/x use offset to spread f/x

    *Make the faders control effects rate and spread.
    Depending on how you program you can change the fader options to ICBF to change size and rate.If you want the console to be an MA or Pearl it isn't and vice versa.

    *Being able to let a "list" (or other stuff) use more then one fader. "Master width"
    No idea what master width is.

    *"Fixtures on faders", that brings the intensity values into the programmer
    No idea what this means.

    *Timing palette sounded great, so that in combination with a play/pause button to prevent any changes in the programmer to output until i click "play"
    I have never heard of this function and don't understand what you are trying to achieve,perhaps you need to use the "blind" feature.

    *A motorised fader wing, with a few physical buttons for pages. Should be given for a desk to have in the 10s =-)
    Perhaps look at the full size expansion wing,not motorized faders but usually more than enough faders and playbacks to control a show.

    *I think the title bar in the windows are unnecessary, the ability to only show the titlebar in "edit" mode for windows. In that way, i can use that space for palettes or other fun stuff instead of just a titlebar. (Forgot this in my original post)
    You can change the layout to one that suits you using move and size and create the view that works best for you or perhaps you need an external monitior or two.
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    I am not looking for workarounds, i am requesting some new features.

    I know i can use fan + offset to spread, but i don't like it a lot. Would love a different parameter called "spread".

    It would be nice to have the speed on fader, even though it's not the most important request.

    I know what the blind feature does, but that's not what im looking for.

    I don't want to have 40 faders on my desk, i want 10 motorised. I am not the only one requesting this.

    And i know how to build views, just wanted the individual windows to be more "slim".

    Would be great with some response from someone at HES.
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    I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for with the "spread" parameter? Can you describe what it would do, and when you'd use it? You can already set all of the effects parameters on a per-attribute basis.

    I know there are some feature requests logged to let you put more things on a fader. It sounds like that's what you're asking for.

    Using a v2 library will cause you a lot of problems over the long run. Offhand, I'm not sure what other features you'll be missing, but a lot has changed since the v2 lib days. We only keep v2 support around for a few long-running shows that simply can't start over from scratch.

    If you don't like merging in the fixtures you need every time you start a show, do it once, and save a copy of the merged show. When you're ready for a new show, use the pre-merged archived. You can even save your user prefs in the show if you'd like.
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    Here is an example where the spread between the fixtures is 100%
    piclair.com/data/a876j.jpg
    As you can see every fixture is as fara away from each other as possible. Know this is possible to do with offset, but it would be a lot greater to have an own parameter for it.

    What do you think about "fixtures on faders" and the timing features i suggested?
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    What you are talking about with spread is the offset feature in the console. You can fan the offset many different ways to get many different effects. I think most of the things you are talking about just have different names or operate slightly different from your tastes. That is OK. One of the great things about Hog III software is that almost anyone can start out with the basics. Then with time on the console and time reading the manual it will open up lots of features and shortcuts that were already there but you were not using. Please remember when reading the manual that the features that you may be used to on other desks may be called something else. There is not a universal console terminology codebook that all of the manufacturers use. But most of all take time, have fun and ask questions of someone who is already using one. Soon you will have another tool for your belt.
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    Gildebrand.

    The MA term for this is "Phase"....on H3 it is called "Offset".

    I know what you are talking about in terms of the "Channel" functions on MA as well as the "multiple fader spread".

    For the benefit of anyone on the forums here who is not familiar with the MA desks:

    - MA has a function where you can assign a single Cuelist (called a Sequence on MA) and "spread" it across multiple faders....that is have more than one fader, flash key, etc controlling the same List at the same time. This way you could have one flash key behave as a flash, and the second behave as a SWOP or Solo. One fader could be intensity only and the other could control speed of a chase or effect, etc.....essentially it is a way to have more physical buttons and faders do more things to a single cuelist than would normally be available on a single fader. These "spreads" can be up to 5 faders or buttons across.

    Once we get some of the existing requests implemented for rate wheel and master options we will be able to do this on H3 as well, but with much greater speed and efficiency.

    - MA also has a function where a "Channel ID" can be set for each unit in addition to a "Fixture ID" (what we on H3 call a User Number). These "Channels" can be brought up in numerical order on their own Pages (as opposed to normal Cuelist/Scene pages) to quickly control intensity only. This mostly get used in shoot environments (TV, etc...).

    Personally I don't find this any faster than simply typing the fixture numbers, or grabbing a Group to adjust. Or even setting up inhibitors or HTP masters. It is one of those things I feel that MA has made uneccessarily over-complicated (it does that a lot ;)).

    Hope this helps. :)
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    leebot:
    I've written several times that i know that i can use fan + offset to create a spread. I often find it hard to fan the offset so much that the fixtures are as "spread" as possible, especially when doing intensity chases, the offset doesn't need to be much "wrong", to be able to see where the effect "restarts". I just want to simplify by using an additional parameter for the spread. This is something that actually exists in ChamSys, both offset and spread. And i absolutely love it. To be able to create 100% spread with a click, or as much spread as you want.

    Marty: What you are talking about is in GrandMa called "Executor size". Not to be confused with what i'm calling "spread". Altough i want to be able to put the "spread" parameter on an extra fader (size) that controls the same list. Is my english confusing you guys? Know it isn't so clear all the time what i'm meaning.

    My "channel" request maybe isn't the most important feature to me. I agree that it's very fast to select fixture and set intensity, i just like the different approach to it =). But this feature requires motorised faders to be worth something.

    I have some more ideas for the fx-engine, which is pretty much an "assembly" of many different requests for the fx-engine. But that's another thread :)
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    Are you saying that it's difficult to get the exact offset values that you want when you're trying to evenly spread something like an intensity effect across a group of fixtures?

    You can type in individual offsets for each fixture, but that's time consuming.

    You can use the fan key and an encoder wheel, but getting the end-points exactly where you want them can be difficult (hence the "restart" problem you mentioned).

    Try using command line fanning, it lets you be much more precise. Say you're doing a ramp effect across a bank of 20 PAR cans. Select the 20 fixtures. Select "ramp" for the table, then press "set" and type in "0 [thru] 360" in the "offset" field. This lets you select the exact end-poings that you want for the fanning, and evenly spaces the values between them.

    Most fields let you use command line fanning. It's very powerful. You can even give multiple ranges like "0 [thru] 240 [thru] 0".
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    +1 motorized faders (might actually be possible with new type of wing?)

    +1 master width with different values on faders, this would be useful with effects. Sometimes its just not possible to use choose+encoder because it takes both hands. Problem occurs when running live flashes or anything that takes other hand all the time. And why do I end up running blinders or intensitys etc. by hand? When working with one time shows its not possible to program everything ready by detail, you just have be ready for almost anything.

    Otherwise I think there´s just a lot of differences of opinion. Different consoles work differently and have different possibilities. Some solutions are not workarounds but the way things are done in the console in question.

    I prefer the H3 way in many cases, but it´s allways possible to make things better!

    Gildebrand and people: Keep on suggesting!
    HES: Keep up the good work and react on the forums feedback! No pressure but REALLY waiting for rel 3.2 :)
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    [QUOTE=Gildebrand;54898]Marty: What you are talking about is in GrandMa called "Executor size". Not to be confused with what i'm calling "spread".

    Yes I know. I was simply trying to explain a bit more clearly so others who might not know can follow as well.

    If you want maximum "spread" on your Offset simply keep your values 180 degrees apart. Offset is based on a 360 circular model (0 is the same as 360)....so 180 apart ( 0 to 180 or 90 to 270 for example) will be the largest "spread". As Eric mentioned it is very fast to directly enter values if you wish.

    Also try playing with the Length and Size FX parameters as you can do a lot of things with those as well.

    Hope this helps. :)
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    No, the maximum spread isn't at 180 in each direction, then you've gone to far.

    The formula for maximum spread should be 0 > 360 - 360/n, where n is the amount of fixtures. Otherwise the first and last fixture are gonna run exactly the same.

    I think...
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    OK now I understand what you are saying.

    This is actually done quite simply. Select the cells for Offset and then type 0 thru 300 for example (depending how many fixtures you have and where you want the last one to be in relation to the first) and all the values will be "spread" evenly across the range....this works the other way as well (ie 300 thru 0).

    This will be even faster with the "Direct Value Entry" functions coming in the 3.2 release.

    Hope this helps. :)
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    If you don't want to do the math in your head for the "360 - 360/n", just add one additional fixture at the end of your selection. Then do a 0 thru 360, and knockout the dummy fixture.
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    [QUOTE=ericthegeek;54912]If you don't want to do the math in your head for the "360 - 360/n", just add one additional fixture at the end of your selection. Then do a 0 thru 360, and knockout the dummy fixture.

    Great Tip thanks!

    It will be paradise when "0 thru Enter" in Offset cell will do it automatically ;):D
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    So i can accomplish an 100% spread pretty simple now, but can i still wish this as an additional parameter?
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