D22 Tungsten Power-On Behavior

Hey SeattleHawk,

The D22 Tungsten would be a good choice.  It does hold the last intensity level when powered off and then back on even when DMX is not used.  Please note that because you are not using DMX, you may notice the light POP on instead of fade up slowly when power is restores.

Also the boot up time for a D22 does take a few seconds for the electronics to warm up and then turn the light on.  So presumably if it's in your lobby, you'll turn the power on before any patrons come in, and turn it off after they leave.  So hopefully this is not an issue.

Powerwise make sure  your older S4 Jrs, just turned on to full every time on a light switch, please make sure that the circuit the power your existing fixtures is on is also updated from a dimmable source to a relay or hard power from a circuit breaker.

However your S4 Jrs are spot fixtures with shutters and the D22,while smaller in size is a wash light.  If you wanted a direct LED upgrade for the same price of a D22 (+/- $100)  I would suggest the colorsource jr. as a better 1:1 upgrade option.  This makes a really nice white, but you can even use some preset colors on the back and when the power turns on/off it will restore that color and intensity.  It may be a fun way to change the look of your lobby sometimes.  https://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Lighting-Fixtures/ColorSource-Spot-jr/Features.aspx?utm_campaign=ColorSource

Or check out this quick video I made to show you how the power on/off function works with restoring levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DH1frDYyEY

As I assume you are based in Seattle, if you need any further help please feel free to directly contact me as I help manage the West Coast for ETC and am happy to get you more information or get in touch with someone local in your area who can help you out even more.  chris.stokes@etcconnect.com

Hi Chris!

Thank you so much for your very informative reply. I appreciate your willingness to help out! 

I am no longer based in Seattle, and now live and work in Salt Lake City, Utah. I made my ETC account when I lived in Seattle and I can't seem to find a way to change my user name now that I have moved. Ironically, the art piece that we are lighting is a 30-foot Chihuly glass sculpture, so I guess the Seattle connection is still there! :-)

I actually did consider the ColorSource Junior and did present it as an option to my supervisor, however, because it is a Chihuly piece, we have been given strict guidelines for display, which means we are not able to use any colors on it, so we are limited to 2700-3000K white only. I opted for the D22 for this reason, since I don't feel the need to purchase features that will never be used. (However, some time in the future we will want to convert our stage lighting to LED, and the ColorSource Juniors would be perfect for our box booms and torms, so I will definitely keep those fixtures on my radar.) 

Also, regarding the spot vs. wash issue, we actually have the shutters on our current Juniors fully open with the barrel run out of focus to emulate a wash. There are 12 of them in a circle around the top of the sculpture all focused down in this manner, so the fact that the D22 is strictly a wash light won't be an issue for us, as we have no need to do any shaping.

And I'm not concerned about the lights popping on when powered up, as we simply turn them on before patrons come in and then off after they leave. Our current Juniors are currently on circuits with Lutron wall dimmers connected, so thanks for the heads up on the power issue. I will make sure to remove those and convert the circuits to hard power.

Thanks again for your help! If I have any other questions or concerns going forward with this project, I will be sure to contact you directly. 

That's awesome.  Well Salt Lake is still in the West, so that's me too.  R&R BBQ is my go to when I visit SLC.

Based on your updated info a D22 totally makes sense.  Make sure to get some of the D22 lens to help shape/spread the beam. 

If you didn't know we can also send you a demo unit and some lens so you can use the actual light you are thinking of and see how it renders on the Chihuly glass.  This sounds like an awesome project and I'd love to see photos when it's done.

Other minor notes.  D22's only come with an edison cords premolded on them.  There is certainly a chance your S4 Jr's may have had the edison option, but usually stage pin was more.

Hi Chris!

Our current Juniors have Edison connectors already, so we are good to go there! As for the lens, since they are 26-degree Juniors we have now, I'm assuming a Narrow Round lens would be my go-to? 

Also, R&R IS DELICIOUS!

I did some internet searching.  Is this the sculpture?

I did some internet searching.  Is this the sculpture?

THAT'S MY LOBBY! :-D

If so, the designer in me says maybe consider the oblong lens.  I would guess the currently fixtures do a bottom/middle/top or bottom/top focus?  Maybe having an oblong lens where you can make the bottle go vertical would help pull focus more.

The native fixture is 21 degrees.  I think for something in the visual eye a lens over the face is a good idea.

Yep, most of the light right now is concentrated at the upper half of the tower, and a lot of intensity gets lost at the bottom half. 

We have them focused right now with the bottom of each beam just outside of the platform on the ground.

And just for fun I was thinking about the wattage decrease.
Your Jr. HPL should be drawing 375w.  The D22 Tungsten at Max is 52 watts.  That's an 86% power reduction.

Or it's a saving of 323watts per hour.  Which translated into BTUs (3.41BTU = 1 watt) is about 1100 BTUs saved per hour per fixture.

How do the lumens of the D22 compare to the Jr's?

This may also help.

Nice! That's very helpful! :-)

Do you know the exact lamp model you're using.  375w or 575w.  But the 115V, the 120V version.  Short life or long life.  They have pretty big differences in your lumen output.

575w/120v/Long life

And on our dimmer switches we are running them at about 80%.

That makes sense for the lamp choice. It's close in output. The D22 is a little less bright.  My question would be how often is one or more of the Juniors out, where the D22s will all always be on?  Or if possible add another 2-3 units in that circle ring to punch up the overall lumens.  I have a feeling it'll be pretty darn close.

We have an iPhone/Android app to do all our photometrics if you're wondering where the below cam from:  https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/Apps/Lighting-Fixtures.aspx

The above photometric data is at 100% on the 575w.  It's not a direct correlation due to the tungsten dim curve, but since you mentioned you run them currently at 80% that is good new .Also that's a really smart maintenance move,running them at 80% increases your lamp life significantly.  I would say in that case run your D22s at full is darn near spot on to running your 575w at 80%!

As a fun side fact, do you ever run them at Full?  Or have you noticed when you replace bulbs that the existing bulbs are a bit cloudy?  You may want to run the fixtures at Full for about an hour ever few weeks.  This restart the tungsten/halogen cycle and basically "burns" any deposits off the glass (what makes it cloudy) and puts them back on the filament.

www.ledvance.co.uk/.../index.jsp

Hi Chris!

Thanks, as always, for this extra info! It is pretty rare when all of the instruments are working at the same time. With the way the building is designed, bringing a Genie lift to the lobby area is a process, so we only replace burn-outs about twice a year. And it seems that as soon as I have them all working again, within a month another one or two burns out (we are unable to change out working lamps due to budget issues). I have noticed what you said, that the burned out lamps have a gray cloudiness to them. When we were having events pre-COVID, the lamps would get a good 7-8 hours of use about four times a week, but obviously now their usage is sporadic, at best.

Also, when I last did maintenance on them back in August, I actually had to replace three of the lamp sockets in the firing caps, as they had corroded and were no longer making contact with the lamps. That alone is another reason why we want to upgrade to LED, so we will no longer have to worry about doing this kind of frequent maintenance, and saving money in the long run.