Feature Request: "GO" should not change the default Q List.

Have you tried different User ID's? Not in front of a console right now, but that should sort your problem. Also, correct me if I am wrong, Update always defaults to the origin of it's value. So if you update a Intensity for a moving device on list 2 and you are in list 1 it should update to list 2. You also can assign a different Cue list to different user is Fader config..... As far as your second problem goes, why do you need to go to blind to fix a partial block Q Cue#X Block Block will do that. Also you can change lists in blind as well. Play around with {Preserve BlindCue} If all that fails , move the lists around and make yours list 1 and his 3 or whatever and when you finished plotting and he is operating the show move them back around.

Hi, Thanks for the response but I have tried most of this and, to with respect, everything that you have suggested are really work arounds to avoid the problem. I should be able to type Q2/ enter and my command line should stay on Q2/ until I tell it otherwise. I know how to change lists in blind. I'm not new. I've been on this console for almost 5-years. I may not know all of the tricks but I know a fair few. This is an issue that has bothered me since day 1 on the console and this past week of plotting has finally up'd my frustration level to the point where I felt I needed to make a request. We are under different user id's and, yes, the software is smart enough to update the correct cue list, which is in fact both wildly impressive and absolutely the only way we were able to continue with this arrangement. However, if the ION updates before I can get my movers marked, I'm forced to go into blind to fix it. Even if I do get my movers marked, if he updates before I do, the console "drops" the mark command. I have to go to blind and re-mark everything. But of course, when I hit Blind, I go to Q1/ and not Q2/. You actually bring up another issue that I have. With the ION as a different user, it should not be updating my channels. User 1 should absolutely NOT have any affect on any active channels User 2 has. "User" should be changed to "Viewer" since there is nothing isolated about the users except for screen views. Partition is no help, either. The ION has to be in Partition 1 (ALL) so that the designer can see all of the channels while I am in Partition 4 (MLs). The big reason for this is the designer wants to mirror the ION and see tombstones and I often need to see table. When he updates, he updates everything. I have tried Preserve Blind and I will never use it again. It doesn't preserve the cue you're in in live it preserves the last cue you looked at in Blind, forcing you to have to type Q#/# yet again because Blind Blind will still leave me in the wrong cue list. Having just looked in Nomad, I don't believe you have that kind of control in Fade Config. I have also tried messing with assigning playbacks but they are a temperamental and capricious beastie and I find them to be completely unreliable. You cannot predict which random playback the console will move a list to when you start moving those lists on and off of the master playback. That said, I really don't want to get into my issues with playbacks on this thread. The partial block thing was just a type of example. (I have a macro for that, too, by the way.) I could have been more specific in saying I got boned when, in the middle of the run, the designer wanted me to go into blind, go to the next cue, and pull out a couple of movers. Since I had hit "GO", when I hit "Blind", I'm in Q1/. So I have to then type in Q2/# and then select the movers but by then, the cue is gone, the moment is past, and I look like a total flat because I seemingly couldn't execute a simple Blind request. After posting my original, I have built macros to take me to either Q1/ blind or Q2/ blind, thus making the Blind button extraneous. I also built Q1/ and Q2/ macros to help control the command line. I have to execute one of those four macros first before I can do anything on the desk, which is an extra button push that, as I'm sure you are well aware, is not always welcome when trying to make fast changes during a run. Thank goodness that I'm on a Ti for this production with its wonderful extra macro buttons and extra wide direct selects. I have no idea how I would have been able to do this on a regular EOS. Not without a fairly sizable x-keys rig or an external touch-screen as my third monitor. I think you misunderstood my second issue. if I'm sitting in Q 23 and execute the Q2/ blind macro, I'm looking at Q2/23. If I use my Q1/ macro while in blind, I'm looking at Q1/0.1 unless I go back to Live and then trigger the Q1/ blind macro. It doesn't matter what I went into Blind to change, I have to spend time and keystrokes to navigate to get to the cue list I want and I shouldn't have to. I'm not switching which list is the master two days before First Preview, even though both lists have all of the same cue numbers. Rehearsal time is too valuable and my designer's reputation is too big for screwing around with that kind of thing. Nor should I have to. I think the better question to ask here is what is the advantage of having the console decide which cue list should be the command line's default cue list because I just don't get it at all. The programmer, not the console, should make these kinds of decisions. Its a big reason that I prefer to use a different console if I am programming a show that has to use any more than 3 running cue lists. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I hope I was able to clarify where this request is coming from and why it is important to me. Cheers! TH

sorry about that. when i hit reply, the website completely reformatted my response

Three things Thomas,

1. I think for Fader config to show up in Nomad you need a fader wing connected.
2. Partitions should work. You would set the Ion to Partition 2 and yourself to all Ch's. The Ch's outside Partition 2 show up in Flexi Active or Patched Ch's, but have no Tombstone border around them. That should work for your LD. You can still update Ch's outside your partition if you force the desk to explicitly, but you will get a warning. That should sort your update problem.
3. Have a quick play around with the fader config when you sit in front of the desk. You should be able to do this or you could try and put list one on a Sub and hit go there, that might leave list two where you want it.... but I am not sure about that.....

I hope I could help and in no way did I imply in my first response that you were new to the console or anything like that. [sarcasm /on] You posted here and not on Facebook.....  [sarcasm /off]....

Merry X-Mas

Florian

Firstly the Forums, annoyingly you need to select 'Use rich formatting' before posting or you loss all the formatting. We're all hoping this gets fixed soon. You can go back and edit the post if you want.

Now to the other problems.

At the moment there is no work arounds for the problem apart from the ones you are using. This is a known issue and is going to change in 2.4 (not 2.3).

At the moment whatever cuelist you execute last will always change the command line, so if you are pressing  Go on list one it will change to list one, this will change in 2.4. It doesn't make any difference if you move list 1 from the master playback if you press go on list 4 on a fader the commadline will change to list 4. The only real workaround is to get the Ion op to press Go, which you don't want to do.

Florian is right about partitions, you should make the conventional programmer only have conventional channels in his partition and the designer will have to see your channels without the tombstone graphic, you're asking for problems if he updates.

The reason why this change is in 2.4 and not 2.3 is because other big changes are happening with faders controls and playback in 2.4. To get around the cuelist number vs playback number at the moment, I always go into fader config and map the faders to a playback number and then map the cuelists onto the fader in live. This way I can make the playback number the same as the cuelist. At the moment when you make a new cuelist it takes the next available playback number. So if I make Cuelist 1, then 2, then 10 they map to playback 0, 1, 2. If I then make cuelist 5 it maps to playback 3 on the first free fader. If you have a show with a large amount of cuelists this is the only real way to manage it and have control and know what is happening.

This is all change in the next year and we will have much more control over things.

Hi, Florian,

Sorry if I was a little defensive, I'm like that sometimes.  I do appreciate the help (no sarcasm!)

Hi, Nick!  

I'm back in Toronto!  Thanks for chiming in.  I am glad to hear that this is on the list and I'm beyond happy to hear that playbacks are going to get a little love.  I tried partitions but I have an old-school designer and he prefers the proper tombstones all around.  What can you do??

It would be nice if the master were just an empty receptacle that you assign playbacks to rather than a cue list.

I have to say that this, in a way, has really helped me be a better programmer.  In having to be so very specific about everything, I find myself really thinking through what I have to do and being very careful with my command line.  Its been forcing me to look up from my hands and to actually watch the the screen.  

I hope all is well with everyone.  Happy Christmas/Happy Holidays/Merry New Year!!!

TH

Hi Thomas. Just wanted to chime in on one of your minor issues: with a client dongle (or nowadays with every Nomad dongle) your designer could be his own user and thus have partition 1 while the ion programmer has a partition according to *his* needs and not the designer's. The smallest dongle is a Nomad 256 and I think it's quite reasonably priced. If iI understood your update problem correctly, I think that would solve it.

Hey, Uelirigg, Thanks for the advice and I'm sure that would work for others but sadly it won't work for the situation I'm in. The designer wants to watch what the ION programmer (someone he didn't hire and who wasn't supposed to be programming for us in the first place) is doing so he's working in mirror mode in order to watch the command line. He has worked this way since Light Palettes were all the rage and it would be a hard sell, especially when he has a perfectly good RVI sitting right in front of him. Not to mention I'm completely against the Nomad dongle.

Hi Thomas,

You could use a magic sheet to show the command line of any other user.

Once you have put a command line of the magic sheet you just need to put the target as the user number.

Then using the split screen to out it below a live screen so it can be seen. See below.

Tom

You have an RVI for the designer? That thing is a client, so you don't need an extra dongle! And if you follow Tom's advice, you get the designer in his own partition with his own user number and still able to see the ion programmer's command line. Just start as Client instead of mirror mode

Hey Tommy

Sorry I didn't realise it was you. Please please give some lip to the Still brothers from me and I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

Sadly Ueli & Tom the designers on the west side of the pond are 'traditional' shall we say in the way they work. It's not about just seeing the command line, it's seeing the channels being selected, taking them into Blind, navigating in blind and making adjustments. Some are find that they're the same user and they need to page the display, some want the programmers to change their display, it's very difficult to keep them happy sometimes!

I normally end up using 2 RVi's one for conventionals with a Split PSD and another with 1 monitor for my movers, I sometimes wonder if they want to see the stage but they seem happy with a load of monitors. I also try to push them to 1 programmer but that hardly ever works. Magic Sheets has fix some problems but now they just want another monitor with a MS on. In your situation I'd force the designer to have the conventional programmer in a partition just for their channels, I couldn't work with them updating me but I know some designers just won't change.

This is a on going problem and is on Anne radar but sadly isn't high up the list as most of the time you can keep a designer reasonably happy with some RVi's as the same user or in mirror mode (although I always avoid this), what we really need is a viewer mode with a set or rules between mirror mode and being the same user.

The cuelist changes will be fixed in 2.4.

Hey Tommy

Sorry I didn't realise it was you. Please please give some lip to the Still brothers from me and I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

Sadly Ueli & Tom the designers on the west side of the pond are 'traditional' shall we say in the way they work. It's not about just seeing the command line, it's seeing the channels being selected, taking them into Blind, navigating in blind and making adjustments. Some are find that they're the same user and they need to page the display, some want the programmers to change their display, it's very difficult to keep them happy sometimes!

I normally end up using 2 RVi's one for conventionals with a Split PSD and another with 1 monitor for my movers, I sometimes wonder if they want to see the stage but they seem happy with a load of monitors. I also try to push them to 1 programmer but that hardly ever works. Magic Sheets has fix some problems but now they just want another monitor with a MS on. In your situation I'd force the designer to have the conventional programmer in a partition just for their channels, I couldn't work with them updating me but I know some designers just won't change.

This is a on going problem and is on Anne radar but sadly isn't high up the list as most of the time you can keep a designer reasonably happy with some RVi's as the same user or in mirror mode (although I always avoid this), what we really need is a viewer mode with a set or rules between mirror mode and being the same user.

The cuelist changes will be fixed in 2.4.

Will do, Nick. Mike is my ION programmer and doing a bang up job. John is both the production electrician and house head. Been having a great time with them. Guys, these are all great ideas but when I said Light Pallette days, I wasn't kidding. If Ken Billington wants to be in mirror mode, Ken Billington gets to be in mirror mode.

If you are the person hitting the "Go" button during rehearsals, did you try making List 2 the master list, and trigger List 1 from there? No reason that wouldn't work. The only bummer would be that your moving light list would need to contain every called cue.