Wholehog 4

[quote=neil-NSLX;34924]Nodody will use an MA 2 full size anyway.


May I ask why you think that, out of interest? Would MA really have spend thousands on a new refurbished console if they thought nobody would buy it. Would you? From what you are saying, your a full-time professional programmer. And I believe you. So in your professional opinion, why would you not use it?

[quote=neil-NSLX;34924]
It doesn't matter how much it weighs

Appologies. This is more of a personal factor I like, being able to transport and lift my own desk easily and alone.

[quote=neil-NSLX;34924]
Not a lot of LD's choose desk by their price

OK. I see what your saying there. What about hire companies though.. If they can buy a Hog 3 for price X and an MA2 for price Y (price Y being higher) If their money was tight, lest we forget we are in the middle of the 'credit crunch', why would they choose a higher priced product, when you could buy something else that does the same for a cheaper price.

[quote=neil-NSLX;34924]
Out of interest Joe, exactly how many shows have you programmed on a Hog3, with real world fixtures? You seem to be remarking on looks, new desks and prices, rather than what any other programmer would go for; which is familarity and reliability.

Truthfully..zero. You have me over a barrell there. Like I said above I remarked on what I would like out of a console. As for the reliability and familiarity, I love the Hog syntax. In UK secondary education we work alot with spreadsheets and databases. You can view alot of things in a spreadsheet on a hog, which (the way it is set out) I am comfortable and confident with. Reliability, I know people have a hang up about the reliability of the Wholehog 3, but things have changed from when it was released, it is going from strength to strength in my eyes.

From what I have heard from you, (which has been interesting :)), you where a MA programmer. Maybe still are.

[quote=neil-NSLX;34924](sorry, I am an MA man normally).

If you dont mind answering a question for me: What factors of the Hog 3 made you change your desk choice.. if you have of course.

Thanks,

May I ask why you think that, out of interest? Would MA really have spend thousands on a new refurbished console if they thought nobody would buy it. Would you? From what you are saying, your a full-time professional programmer. And I believe you. So in your professional opinion, why would you not use it?

Because most people will go for the MA2 Lite, rather than Full Size. Full size has been designed for BIG jobs like Olympics, and other jobs of similiar caliber. One touch screen on a Lite isn't enough, but 3 is kind of too many in a lot of ways (well 3 touch), therefore for 90% of jobs, the MA2 Lite will suffice. On Hog I only like a 3rd monitor for programmer/output views as opposed to using it as a touch screen... Although sometimes it would be useful to have an extra for FX programming, but 2 touch and 1 external suits me fine.

Hire companies will buy what the LD specifies. The big rental houses always have. Take a look at the rock n roll boys, all Avo or Hog or MA - no Fat Frogs or Vectors or Vistas etc. Reason being, that the LD's mostly spec the Avo/MA/Hog desks, not the other desks. My point being that rental companies buy what the LD wants, NOT whats cheapest - otherwise they would all have fat frogs or Jester MLs sitting in the warehouse doing nothing ;)

From what I have heard from you, (which has been interesting :)), you where a MA programmer. Maybe still are.

If you dont mind answering a question for me: What factors of the Hog 3 made you change your desk choice.. if you have of course.

In short, I use what the hell I want. My job revolves purely about making looks on stage and crunching numbers. All good programmers will be able to do this no matter what the desk. Most of the reason I ask questions about the Hog 3 is setup related, which is totally different to the actual programming - which there is no difference between Hog and MA. syntax needs remembering more on a Hog, where as MA will work both ways round - but 2 mins on a Hog and the syntax order comes flooding back.

At the end of the day, Hog and MA work exactly the same. All stacks, loads of faders, groups/pallets stored on touch screens etc. As I said, just Syntax and Setup procedures different, and buttons (ie Store/Record etc).

Theres nothing I can do on the Hog that I can't the MA, although the opposite isn't true. To be honest, jobs shout the desk out to me. I can look at a job and know if I want a Pearl, Diamond, Hog 3 or MA. It depends on how I run a show - which with all the above desks can be different.

Interesting to read. Thanks!

I have said this before I program lots of consoles, but I still think the Hog 3
is a grate platform.

Interestingly enough, I have been using Hog 3's for the first couple of tours that I have been LDing this year, and despite coming from an MA background, I am in fact rapidly becoming more of a Hog 3 fan again... This could be because I am programming 2 pretty big tours, and its been challenging, but fun learning more into the Hog 3 operating system - or possibly because whilst I think the MA has some great functions, the Hog's simplicity makes life easier for me...

Anyway, the reason I added some more comments with this, is because this week I have been back on MA's, and realised that in actual fact a fair bit of the desk is unfinished.

My main example being that when strobbing Macs on the MA, I got the dreaded CLICK you get with Macs, and they re-set themselves and sat there for 20 minutes complaining that they were hot, and didn't want to work. Obviously, the H3 stops you from doing this, as you strobe in Hz, and the Reset command has been put into the Control settings. It happened on the MA because I wound it up too far, to get that last bit of speed out - which we are all guilty of doing!! Happens to me on a Pearl all the time too ;)

This, I guess was the catalyst for me explore further into the MA, and what else I found to be unfinished in MA1 - well, I have to occupy 20 minutes some how!

Without wanting to create a list, the Screens were another simple, but yet unfinished thing in MA1. I really like the fact you need to hold down record to record a screen Macro in a Hog, where as if you are using an MA Lite (which I wasn't on this occasion) when changing screens, which is necessary, all the time, pressing STORE can bugger you beyond belief, if your not in the right screen first.... Again, a simple, but yet unfinished thing with MA.

I also found myself getting really pissed off with the Shape Generator on the MA too, having used it really easily on the Hog, I found going back to MA shapes to be annoying, and un-necessirily complicated. I like holding down fan and the simpleness of the Hog 3 Shape Generator.

Anyway, those are some of the things I found annoying with the MA, which in 10 years, and 4 years of me moaning at MA, things which remain not done - all simple, but things that cause me time and grief... and a good reason, in my opinion to show why manufactuers shouldn't release new desks, unless the software of the current one is running at full capacity, with no silly little unfinished things.

Neil, I think you and I share a similar opinion. Difference being... I never took to the MA series 1, or the news series 2. I found the MA too complicated whereas Hog is simple... I like that. As a programmer, we have enough to deal with without 6 different ways of doing things. The guys at MA are nice, and it is a good product for some people... but not me. The syntax is on major thing I didnt like about it.

Brad - you should be able to remember this first time we met at PLASA. The first thing I asked about was the syntax wasn't it..? HES customer support, products and the un-precidented development team are world class. No joke. That is exactly what the industry needs. Hence the reason I use a Hog at every possible occasion.

Now back onto the H4 topic... I think everything the current user wants can be done in software development. As these things start being released.. Hog is going to get even stronger. In fact I have enough confidence in HES to say that the strength of the H3 platform will have almost doubled by this time next year. Coupling the powerful and intuative software with products like DL.3, AXON, then adding the huge processing power of the DP8000; your show cannot go wrong.

Supporting HES/Barco and the Wholehog line is one brilliant decision I made. Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Neil, I think you and I share a similar opinion. Difference being... I never liked the MA series 1, or the news series 2, in the first place.

Joe, if I were you I would be careful what you say here.. Firstly, I never said I didn't like the MA - so in actual fact, we don't really share a similiar opinion at all! You have made a rather bold assumption here. I said that the MA wasn't finished in some areas, and with the comments I made above in mind, I should point out here that the MA has on several occasions performed brilliantly for me, and it has never crashed on me mid show, and I have programmed some pretty big monster shows on it.

To be openly claiming not to like a desk, or never have, is a rather bold statement to make - especially on an internet forum, where people (including MA themselves) can read what you have said, and may be less helpful in the future towards you... It also doesn't really do wonders for your CV, as you appear to be touting yourself as a Level 3 MA Programmer.... A lot of programmers, myself included get work from being reccomended from Manufacturers, you should bear this in mind :)

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, the major to do list is to get Artnet out of the desk directly, and to work on a few of the features I mentioned a couple of months ago.

I now beleive theres a party on the upper lounge, so I'll catch you laters.

Appologies Neil. I never meant to make it sound like that, I also never meant to make an assumption. I meant I didn't like the MA works... in comparison to the Hog. MA have been very nice to me and I have nothing against the product or the company themselves. I am sure it has worked well for you (and others).. but not my sort of desk. I have done the training, hence the reference to it on my CV. But the desk didnt appeal to me really. As it always it is a personal preference.

Regards,

As others have said, Hog 4 should happen . . . . eventually. Hog 2 was killed while it still had a lot of potential - let's not make the same mistake with Hog 3!!!! And please, if there is a Hog 4, no Windows under the covers . . . . .

- Tim

I say fix the problems with hog 3 version 3.0.4 and 3.0.5 and then add in all the features to bring it to an on-par desk with the others..(pda style remote, midi, auto-takeover from other console, TABLET INTERFACE!!!.. Just to name a couple features that should be implemented..) then talk about version 4 and figure out how it can blow any other desk out of the water.. Just my opinion.. :/

how about a hog 3 "black label" where it comes in shiny black and has everything the same except it also has movin' faders, usb connection, and at least 4 built in dmx's for those of us that would prefer that....o and by christmas too!

If it will have hog4 .Please let the DP8000 can work with hog 4.And the hog 3 and hog 4 can work in a network. Because MA1 and MA2 can do it.

[quote=zafflax;39900]how about a hog 3 "black label" where it comes in shiny black

Ummm.....NO! Hogs should always be blue!
:hogsign:

[quote=Scott Chen;39904]And the hog 3...can work in a network. Because MA1 and MA2 can do it.

Hog-3 has been able to work in a network since its' inception.
What problem are you having with H3 in a network?

I think what Scott means is that if they made a Hog 4, then it should be able to be used in a Hog 3 network and vice versa. Like the MA series one is cross compatible in some ways with the series 2.

Regards,