Roadhog

:poke: OUCH Joshua! Now my feelings ar hurt.

[quote=Woodj32177]
...There is no reason to be abusive...


Joshua, I will happily apologize to you if you took offense. :sad:

Perhaps you are not aware that I am simply showing my anger at the fact that a forum full of product users and complaining about a product that is wonderfully priced with reasonably proportionate features. :headbang:

[quote=Woodj32177]
Just because YOU don't see a need for midi in the roadhog...


I see the need for a console that brand new, has unlimited cue potential, thousands of palettes, and is UNDER $15,000.

I also see a need for a Midi Widget in the event I decide to use LTC, VTC, or MSC which I do use quite frequently.

[quote=Woodj32177]
Since it seems you have never needed midi in a desk...


How in the world would you conceive this from my statements? I never said I didn't need midi. I was tying to make a statement that if the market is flooded with cost effective Hog 3 solutions then Hog 3 will become the standard that Hog 2 was.

Between a Maxxyz, Vector, Vista, and GrandMA, I would pick an MA almost every single time. Between an MA and a Hog 3, I would pick a Hog 3 99.9% of the time. You see, my point is that I would use an MA if I couldn't get a Hog 3 which is good considering that in the industry, MA is considered by many to be the "New Standard" that Hog 2 was.

My whole point is this... The touring market determines what new products saturate the market. 90% of all tours with designed lighting packages (rented locally, or taken on the tour), are at the most 2 universes and never have more than about 15 to 20 movers and maybe a media server and some LEDs. This means a show that is literally 1 or 2 universes where timecode will never be an issue.

I Design tours like this, I program tours like this. It's a great way to make some extra cash on the side from time to time. I however, do not go out with tours. I do have to consider the board opp that does and the lighting company providing gear. Since I hate hog 2, I am stuck with GrandMAs most of the time. The MA is just too big for small shows like this but if it's all the operators know or if it's all the vendors have, I'm stuck.

I can make the tour managers happy by renting a pearl or hog 2 cheap or I can make the opps happy by renting a larger format console like the vista, vector, maxxyz, ma, or Hog 3 but if the market only gives me once choice, then I say, "let's change the market." We HES just did that with the Roadhog and it has nothing to do with Midi.

[quote=Woodj32177]
As for buying a PC system vs. a roadhog,
If you want to be on a tour and spend a half an hour plugging in 7 pieces of equipment vs just plugging in a desk you can go ahead and do that.


HUH???
I'm confused? Wasn't it clear that I was pointing out how nice it is to have everything built into one desk? Didn't my explanation show everyone that for the same price as all the gak, someone can have a self-contained desk with less points of failure?


Oh and here is a thought... I program shows. I especially program BIG shows, with Big rigs (8 to 10 universes). Granted I may only design a program 10 to 12 big shows a year, but it's a great deal of work and many of these shows (especially corporate shows) are loaded with timecode and midi events. For these, I use the $5,000 Midi/Timecode Processor and not the $1,000 Timcode Widget. So believe me, I do know a little something about timecode.


Oh and a good example of timecode in a small environment. I also program theme shows at amusement parks. This usually means I show up for a week and program and then the show runs for 2 months every night.
When I program, I sit on the $30,000 Hog 3 with 2 19" touchscreens and an expansion (or extra playback) wing(s).

When I fly home, the light tech uses a programming wing, mouse, keyboard, PC, Widget (or Super Widget), and a timecode widget because it's the "cheap" and effective way to run 2 months worth of shows.

Now I would have a new solution where I could have a Roadhog and timecode widget for a slight higher cost and my clients (and the poor busy light tech/opp) are happy with me because it's self contained.

Granted, like Hillary said above, recieving midi commands is a big deal. Of course it doesn't break the deal for me, but LDI is 6 months away and that gives Flying Pig plenty of windows to come up with a Midi Widget for the Roadhog.

[QUOTE=SourceChild]Of course it doesn't break the deal for me, but LDI is 6 months away and that gives Flying Pig plenty of windows to come up with a Midi Widget for the Roadhog.

But they aren't doing Orlando according to LN.....so you actually have 18 months before you can see it at an LDI. :poke: :poke: :poke:

Sorry...had to lighten this up a little bit.

My take on this entire MIDI thing......

Should MIDI be "included" - for my money and the price of the console, NO.
Should MIDI be an "option" - absolute YES.....as an external widget of some type.

I can count on one hand how many times I've needed some type of MIDI on a console. I can't count how many times I have need SMPTE. Does this mean there shouldn't be MIDI, absolutely not...

I understand that people still use MIDI (for MSC or MTC....doesn't matter) but this has gotten really steamy over something that is just crazy...especially since the desk isn't even shipping yet. I can understand asking for it, but this has really gotten crazy.

All I can say is that my PO just went in for a Road Hog for an install. It was the PERFECT solution for this location. They wanted Hog 3 software (insisted on it to be honest). It's a smaller room with movers, LEDs and conventionals and was originally spec'd as an iPC because they couldn't afford the III. When the Road Hog was released, I sent it to them and they jumped at it. Now, it freed up some money for more movers.

But your mileage may vary....

Todd,
Perhaps my frustration lies in the fact that the roadhog is a great desk, and in my opinion, the ONLY thing lacking in it is midi,
I also believe that the added cost of a midi/smpte widget is somewhat unacceptable, I can't think of a single desk from flying pig that wouldn't take timecode out of the box. (perhaps Hog 1??)
If a timecode widget costed around 100$ instead of $1000 I think some people would not have a problem with the fact that it doesn't have any sort of timecode built in.

"Perhaps you are not aware that I am simply showing my anger at the fact that a forum full of product users and complaining about a product that is wonderfully priced with reasonably proportionate features"

I agree that it has reasonable features, with the only exception being the fact that it doesn't take midi out of the box, and Last I checked that was the purpose of these forums, is to express our likes and dislikes so that High End can help to fill the needs of a greater number of its customers.

OR if as we all have talked about a few times if it took a
The price of the SMPTE widget doesn't seem too bad when compared with the cost of a Hog 3 or with an IOP, but when you take into account the low cost of the desk, adding around $$800-$1000 for timecode input seems a bit extreme, Especially since it has been an included feature of the rest of Flying Pig/Highend desks for a very long time.

In any case, no hard feelings, I call it like I see it.
Josh

(In any case, I will stop kicking the dead horse)

All,

I regret that I have been away for this forum while at Frankfurt, but now that I am back I am pleased to read all the comments on the Road Hog.

Regarding the debate on the MIDI, please remember that the specs you see posted are for the initial release. We did not build the console with no plans for future expansion. We DID build the console with a specific timeline and target price.

The ability to add MIDI has always been on our list for a future release, but it is not listed on the current specs as it is not currently available. Remember the Hog iPC with only 2 monitors upon its initial release... then a few months later it was updated to function with 3 monitors.

Road Hog will have MIDI capabilities in the future, just not with the initial release.

I think that you will all find this console is a wonderful addition to the Wholehog product line and at a very reasonable price.

The development team at HES/FPS has done a fantastic job getting this console built and ready for release in a short time and we have more surprises for later in the year too.

Yes, all i can say is GREAT WORK, guys..

This is probably the best "featured, and priced" console in the h3 line, when you take into consideration the request and the marked segment it is directed towards..not only compared to other pigs, but also the competition.. This baby is gonna sell in BIG numbers!!

-I would guess many venues/rentalhouses etc, that have had problem to justify buying a H3, or an Ipc becouse of price/demand, now will have a problem to justify NOT buying a roadhog ;)

too bad you wont sell many H500/1000 anymore;) hehe

Hey Jon, for you I :footinmouth: about LDI

Hey Josh, for you I :dunno: about the Midi.

Hey Brad, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: oh sorry, couldn't think of anything.

Sorry Todd...just couldn't resist that one... :147:

could anybody tell me the main differences there is between the hog5/1k and the road hog.

I use both the 500 and 1 k most weekends usually having a hand ful of movers, 30 dim channels and some other intelligent led stuff.

Were desperately after getting something that handles the led stuff a little better.

Have been offered a good price on both the 500 and the road hog and wondered how difficult the transition will be for some of the "less able" members of staff that have to go out and use it.

thanks in advance

Mike,

There are very large hardware differences between the older Hog 500/100 and the new Road Hog. First of course are the color touch screens on the Road Hog. The four universes of output of the Road Hog is also double that of the Hog 500/1000.

In terms of software the differences are huge. You can read about the differences here:
www.highend.com/pdfs/products/wholehog3pc/Hog3better.pdf

Also keep in mind that the software development on the Hog500/1000 stopped over 5 years ago, while the software for the Road Hog is continuing to evolve.

The transition over to the Road Hog is very simple for most and we have several publications that could be of use:
Wholehog User Manual, Wholehog 2 to 3 Thesaurus, and more at: www.flyingpig.com/support/hog3/manuals/

How does the hog 3 software manage with led fixtures,

Is there any reported roblems of strange problems occuring on the old hog 5/1k range?

Thanks

The biggest problem with the 500/1000 range is that I believe there are no RGB effects in the effects engine, and since you can't create your own effects on that desk, you have to build them in PC and merge them in.
Vs. the Roadhog that deals very well with RGB fixtures, and gives you access to the complete effects engine..


Joshua Wood

[QUOTE=nunny]How does the hog 3 software manage with led fixtures,

Is there any reported roblems of strange problems occuring on the old hog 5/1k range?

Thanks

After using a 3 for almost 4 years, I had the recent joy (:friday: ) of returning to a Hog1K and having about 20 LED fixtures...

It became apparent rather quickly why I like the 3 so much. You can do so much more so much easier with the LED's on the 3 that I didn't even think about it. HSI, CMYI, Individual RBG Intensity and almost any combination thereof. While, the 1K is just Individual RBG Intensity, you will have to do all of your own color mixing conversions, build all of your RGB effects in HogPC and import them into the 1K....things like this just make the speed of LED's on the 3 so much more intuitive.

Hope it helps...

Hi All...
The console specs look great :) and I can do without midi for now...!!
I want to trade in the 5 HogPC systems worth of super widgets, widgets, wings and iPC 12" touch screens for some RoadHog's... Have upgraded our 2 iPC's to 17" touchscreens already.

Craig

Well, if you are looking to unload some of your used Hog PC and iPC pieces, let us know, I for one would be interested.

Is the software straigh hog 3 pc or is it a different build? I have been ready that there are a few un happy people with the hog 3 the i pc and I was wondering if it is the same build on the road hog or if it is different to the rest of the products.